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bentraje

[SOLVED] Modelling Hair

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  • I've been pulling my hair with this one. 

    How do I model a long hair like this? Reference.
    (1) I tried extruding the hair from head mesh but took too long and the resulting topology is just horrible as I keep adding unnecessary loops. 
    (2) I tried using a Sweep-Spline to block the hair. Apparently, C4D, even if all of them are merged to one object, still recognizes (when you sculpt) them as separate object. They don't meld when you smooth the object. I tried using the metaball to "seamlessly" merge the hairs but it was hopeless. 

    Any thoughts?

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    I don't know what your workflow looks like, but I've sort of run into this limitation as well. I can sort of get decent results if i try to keep it all with one object, but it's too limiting. I think what i'm going to try next will be to just have it as a separate object, and then just retopo a single mesh around both sculpted objects as if they where combined. It might produce a weird normal map though. But I'm not sure so I gotta try it out and see how well it works. But if your workflow doesn't involve retopo this may not be a helpful solution for you.

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    Create rough mesh from sphere (lowpoly hexahedron sphere converted to polygons, deleted unnecessary polygons, then extruded with caps for some volume, selected loop of polygons from extrusion, extruded again /without caps!/, again and again, with move tool moved point loops little outside etc..simply creating base shape for sculpting)

    ...sculpting directly in c4d

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    Bezo, for animating do you think it would ultimately be best to just have the hair remain a seperate object and rig it with it's own joints? For example what I said earlier about doing the retopo as if the hair and body where connected. It wouldn't be hard just to make sure the roots of the hair follow the head wherever it goes. maybe there aren't really any advantages to connecting it.

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  • @Alec
    With a long hair, I think it will be a good idea to have it a separate mesh. This way you are not limited by edge flow, number of vertices and also you have more freedom to weight and rig the hair.

    @bezo
    "extruded again /without caps!/, again and again" 

    I'm so afraid it will come to this. Are there really no hope for your that sweep nurbs path?

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    You can also use Loft. Add rough spline profiles under Loft. Spline profiles (all profiles same count of points, simply copied from previous/first) create rough volume  and after conversion to poly continue in sculpting...

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    Assuming you dont have Zbrush you can block out the rough volume from a sphere, but I would do it  in sections.  Being I cant see all angles, it looks like it has 3 peices 1:Fringe, 2:back sweep, 3: side sweep.  You can then progress to Uv unwrap it, and sculpt it in C4D. I did this in just 15 min or so, its not a long process job, this will get you the basic mesh to sculpt on.  

    Your use the fast extrude using selecting the edge and holding Ctrl key as you move, rotate, and scale each extrude.

    Use the Brush, and Iron mesh to help move the volumes into place.  Use the sculpting tools/Grab, and Smooth to even out the mesh as you go.  Any gaps use the bridge.  Use the Loop/Path cut to add extra edge loops.

    Next stage is sculpting it.  Il do a quick sculpt over now.

     

    Dan

     

    hair geometry 1-6.jpg

    hair geometry 7-10.jpg

    hair geometry 11-13.jpg

    Next stage is sculpting without Sub dividing.  This is to get the mesh smoother, and better volume.

     

    hair geometry 14.jpg

    Sculpting basics:  Here are some basic brushes,that I found similar to Zbrush.

    1: Zbrush Dam Standard = Amplify & Knife

    2:Zbrush Clay Build up= Wax

    3:Zbrush Move Topo= Grab

    4: Zbrush H Polish = Scrape

    Another method that im a fan of is to sculpt the hair as high poly mesh, then retopo it, project the details.

    Hope this helps.

    hair geometry sculpt.jpg

    hair sculpt.jpg

    Dan

     

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  • @Rectro
    Hi. I am totally blown away from your effort. Will try it now and will let you know what I have.
    What is also a revelation for me is I never though it is possible with a single plane. I always thought that you have to extrude the faces to create a volume (that is why I used a sweep previously). 

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  • @Rectro

    Thank for your insight once again. It is more clearer to me now although of course it took me hours (lol). 
    Can I ask you several more questions?

    (1) At what subdivision level where you able to sculpt the details in the hair? I did it in Level 4 but I'm not sure.
    (2) Now that the hair has an "outer" surface. How do you go about putting flesh inside? Like developing the volume on the tip of the hair? Or sticking the hair into the head.

    For the sticking hair into the head. I was thinking of plain extrude inside and having a shrink wrap to wrap in the head. But I am not successful with it.
    For the developing volume, I was also thinking of extruding, but since it does not follow the contour of the "outer" surface. I had to perform another sculpt (not shown below). Is that okay or are there another better method of doing this?

    Also, isn't it now more convenient, if that first, we try to create the volume (the polygon volume not the sculpt volume) rather than later?

    P.S. The hair I am making will be rig/animated. That is why I need to have it volume. 

    hair1.JPG

    hair2.JPG

    hair3.JPG

    hair4.JPG

    hair5.JPG

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    2 hours ago, bentraje said:

    (1) At what subdivision level where you able to sculpt the details in the hair? I did it in Level 4 but I'm not sure.
    (2) Now that the hair has an "outer" surface. How do you go about putting flesh inside? Like developing the volume on the tip of the hair? Or sticking the hair into the head.

    Hi. 

    I can't remember yo be honest,  just as in Zbrush I kept sub deciding till I have enough,  but always work on the larger masses at much lower levels,  even at level one. . To add volume I can see two options,  1: Instead of extruding edges,  extrude the edge toward the head then extrude faces doing the same as in my step b step post. . 2: Make hair cards as done in games,  in the case of the method I used,  I'd add to that building up many cards flowing in the same direction. . Use a alpha map to mask out the tips for a realistic looking hair. . If realistic isn't your goal,  then face extrude the volume. . If I was to go face extrude I'd concentrate on the sculpt,  then retopo it. . Today il show u with cards to add volume.  Assuming you just want the tips of hair to sway,  it should be fine using fewer cards,  less joints,  but I haven't tried animation of geometry hair myself. 

    Dan

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  • @Rectro

    Hi. My aim is more of cartoony and so hair cards is not option. 
    Basically, I just want a big solid mesh for the hair and maybe some few strands and that's about it. 

    I don't quite get the instructions on extruding. 
    Let me clarify.
    (1) Is it better to extrude before or after the sculpt?
    (2) In the case of after, extrude inside then re-sculpt again to develop the form?

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    57 minutes ago, bentraje said:

    @Rectro

    Hi. My aim is more of cartoony and so hair cards is not option. 
    Basically, I just want a big solid mesh for the hair and maybe some few strands and that's about it. 

    I don't quite get the instructions on extruding. 
    Let me clarify.
    (1) Is it better to extrude before or after the sculpt?
    (2) In the case of after, extrude inside then re-sculpt again to develop the form?

    This is something best shown. . Il make a short video on the methods. . It won't be comprehensive,  but will be very clear on direction. 

     

    In all cases I use the sculpting brushes even if for basic volume.  Method 1 is to simply extrude volume,  and direct it over the shoulder in the case of your reference.  Along the way use the Grab,  Smooth brushes as this will get you there much faster than selecting verts,  soft selection,  grow selection e.c.t which all valid modeling methods. I'm trying to translate the "easy"  way done in Zbrush to the C4d way.  Zbrush I could video it live and have in done in 25min max. 

     

    Method two is all about sculpture,  can all be done from a sphere,  a bit of extruding,  then retopo gets your finnal mesh. I use MODO for retopo. 

     

    Dan

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