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Guest TeamZissou

Best practice for first model

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Guest TeamZissou
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  • Hi All,

    I'm very new to the world of C4D and I'm looking for some advice on how to tackle this model.

    I have followed a bunch of different 'intro to modelling tools' tutorials and have completed a few others where I've actually ended up with a completed model but now I want to challenge myself and create something from scratch without following along with a guide.

    I have chosen to create one of these panels from 2001: A Space Odyssey and then throw it in a cloner to create the scene. I just wanted your opinions on how would be best to approach eating the model.
     

    Currently I can think of 3 ways:

    1 - Work with a single object, a plane for example, subdivide this as necessary and extrude each 

    2 - Draw it all with the spline tool and then extrude

    3 - Use a combination of the above and create individual objects for each element

     

    Also would I be correct in thinking that creating triangles is generally a bad idea? If so how would you go about tackling the triangular indents in each corner?

     

    Thanks in advance!

    2001so.jpg

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    I prefer polygonal modelling , and maybe with some splines a guid for the snapping . the polygon pen will be your best tool (also you can use the sculpting tools in normal modelling ).

    and yes , triangles are not good , especially with subdivision surface .

    you can search for "3d kiwi" tutorials , he have some great tutorials .

     

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    I would start with a flat plane, 1 x 1 segments, and the correct size for one panel. Then you can do 1 way symmetry so you only have to model half of it. Within one half of my symmetry subordinated plane I would create (with the knife tool) topology that supports all the features, indents and cutouts in that surface. It is very difficult to describe the correct edge flow without doing it for you. This a quite a complicated modelling project for someone who hasn't done it before.

    You can also do the whole thing with splines, which would be faster if you are not sure what you are doing with sub-d poly modelling, but that's cheating really, and it won't give you the sort of nice rewarding topology you can learn from.

    Off to sleep now, but I'll knock you up a rough poly modelled version tomorrow at some point, if someone else doesn't get there first...

    CBR

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    I wouldn't use splines if I could help it. Here's a stripped down scene file of a space corridor scene I did for the Cafe's R16 product announcement. I only did some spline modelling on the bulkhead frame as this was the most appropriate modelling method.


     You can pull it apart and hopefully get some ideas. Also attached is my final render. The materials make a huge difference to some fairly simple modelling.

    Space.zip

    Final01.jpg

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    Guest TeamZissou
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  • Hi Guys,

    Really appreciate the quick responses, I didn't receive an email notification so I've only just seen these.

    I had made a quick test start while I was waiting to hear from you all and the attached is as far as I got. As you can see I simply made a plane with a few extrudes and bevelled those corners, am I heading in the right direction? Obviously I've got a triangle in there.. I wasn't really sure how to avoid this.

    @maliohammad Thanks for the advice, please can you elaborate on using a spline as a guide for snapping? Would I be correct in thinking that this would mean using the spline shape simply as a guide and then cutting it's outline into your polygon?

    @Cerbera Thank you, and you're right, I thought this would be simple, maybe not so much! I did start with a plane, but I think I need to educate myself further with the knife tool. How would you go about making the triangular cuts for the corner indents? also would it be best to create all curved edges with the initial cuts or do this at a later stage with bevelling? If you know of any guides/tutorials for modelling which you think may be beneficial for this project it would be great if you could point me in their direction!

    @3DKiwi Thank you for the corridor scene, that is great, I disabled everything back to the single wall panel (very helpful to see how it was mirrored and cloned, thanks!) Did this start as a single plane? If so how was the overall shape created. Also would I be right in thinking that the grill/vent areas were created with extrude and bevel? Did you cut the initial shape or simply select a rectangle of polygons within the plane?

    Sorry for all the questions and if I am using the wrong terminology in places, I just want to be sure I tackle this correctly and don't pickup any bad practices moving forward.

    Thanks again!

    Example.zip

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    46 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    @maliohammad Thanks for the advice, please can you elaborate on using a spline as a guide for snapping? Would I be correct in thinking that this would mean using the spline shape simply as a guide and then cutting it's outline into your polygon?

     

    to use spline as a guid , you draw your splines (and adjust them ) then enable snapping(shift+S) , then spline snapping (and you can disable vertex snapping ) . 

    and just model and move the points to match the spline , I use this when I want to do organic modelling (e.g.human ) . I draw splines on deferent areas like the jaw , eye contour , mouth contour ...etc then they help me make the shape I want .

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    2 hours ago, TeamZissou said:

    @Cerbera Thank you, and you're right, I thought this would be simple, maybe not so much! I did start with a plane, but I think I need to educate myself further with the knife tool. How would you go about making the triangular cuts for the corner indents? also would it be best to create all curved edges with the initial cuts or do this at a later stage with bevelling? If you know of any guides/tutorials for modelling which you think may be beneficial for this project it would be great if you could point me in their direction!

    This is how you make triangle shapes out of all quads... 1st row is the actual geometry you create, 2nd / 3rd rows show what happens under subdivision.

    triangles quads.jpg

    Note the differences in edge flow choices depending on whether we want sharp or rounded corners...

    CBR

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    Guest TeamZissou
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  • @Cerbera Thanks, that was really helpful! And now for what might be a stupid question, how did you create the initial triangle shape/cuts to begin with? And would you mind further explaining the term 'edge flow' as I am unfamiliar with this.

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    26 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    ow did you create the initial triangle shape/cuts to begin with?

    In my case, I made my initial triangle from a disc primitive with 3 sides.

    When you make that editable that gives you a perfect triangle, but made of 3 triangular polygons (bad).

    Then I got the knife tool (k) and added 3 cuts from the center point to half way down each edge.

    Then I selected each group of 2 polys that comprise the 'kite shapes' and melted them to remove the original edges. 

    Voila - a triangle made of quads :) The problem now is how that behaves under a subdivision surface object, hence the need for 'control edges' in my earlier examples.

     

    26 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    And would you mind further explaining the term 'edge flow' as I am unfamiliar with this

    Well that's a vast subject - I could write a 100 page essay on edge flow and solving topology problems, and still not cover it all :)

    In summary - edge flow is simply the flow of edges around the shapes you are trying to describe, and the process of varying their construction based on the rules of how subdivision surfaces behave. 

    Really the best advice I can give you is to watch every single tutorial in this playlist, which will give you a thorough understanding of what the rules are, and how to avoid artefacts caused by rubbish edge flow :) Note: he mentions 'Hypernurbs' a lot. In R17 thats now called a Subdivision Surface Object. They renamed it in R12 or thereabouts.

    CBR

     

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    Guest TeamZissou
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  • @Cerbera Ah, I see! I just gave it a go, perfect! Is there a way to make each cut from the centre point join to exactly half way of each side? Currently I'm just eyeballing it. Also how did you create the extra edges? Was this done with inner extrude or did you carry on making knife cuts? and finally (last question I promise!) Once the triangular shape was created, how did you then create the rectangular plane which it sits within?

    I will take a look at those tutorials, thanks for the link!

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    20 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    Is there a way to make each cut from the centre point join to exactly half way of each side?

    Yep. Turn on snapping, edge snap, and mid-point snap.

     

    20 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    Was this done with inner extrude or did you carry on making knife cuts?

    If you want sharp corners do it with the knife tool in line mode, if you want soft corners (and don't want to describe the shape with additional points) then you'd use inner extrude. The sharpness comes from how the lines interact at the corners and how many of them there are. 

     

    20 minutes ago, TeamZissou said:

    Once the triangular shape was created, how did you then create the rectangular plane which it sits within?

    I ctrl-dragged sets of edges out from the left side of the triangle, then selected all the top edges, and did the same, although you also have to scale those to 0 on Y (move the modelling axis to the outer edge and hold shift as you scale to quantize movement) to flatten them out to rectangle shape. Same for the bottom edges. Then add control loops with the knife tool in loop mode to isolate the triangle geometry from the outer perimeter shape.

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    5 hours ago, TeamZissou said:

    Thank you for the corridor scene, that is great, I disabled everything back to the single wall panel (very helpful to see how it was mirrored and cloned, thanks!) Did this start as a single plane? If so how was the overall shape created. Also would I be right in thinking that the grill/vent areas were created with extrude and bevel? Did you cut the initial shape or simply select a rectangle of polygons within the plane?

    The walls started as a low resolution cylinder and roughed out the shape with the vents. This was using Subdivision surfaces. I wanted tight grooves and couldn't quite get what I wanted so made the subdivision surface object editable. I then did the grooves. This allowed for sharp corners.

    The vents were done as an extrude and bevel. Correct.

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