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nerv

First experiences with Cycles4D

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nerv    259

Impulsively bought Cycles4D over the weekend and, after some flustered, frustrated attempts, I feel like I'm starting to get the hang of it.  It's growing on me! 

Haven't created anything extremely complex with it yet.  I'm seeing this as more of a "material studies" series.   

 

PRÆTIOSΛ - experimenting with creating holographic effects and layering displacement maps. 

26gsdS1KCyxwTl6IU.gif

 

PΛRS INITIΛ - displacement and refraction study 

16110456_1649025892060194_74934988007580

 

 

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Igor    467

Interesting, so Cycles are not for everyone I guess. Would you say its complicated software to use?

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JuanRender    2

Hi.

Learning to use a material system handled by nodes, requires a "change of mind", no doubt. But as you get more familiar with it, it shows its strength. I like the Cinema4D system of channels and tabs, but with a nodes system such as Cycles proposes, it can get you to another level of productivity and creativity. You can combine almost every property of a scene object to achieve the look you want.

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Igor    467
6 minutes ago, JuanRender said:

Hi.

Learning to use a material system handled by nodes, requires a "change of mind", no doubt. But as you get more familiar with it, it shows its strength. I like the Cinema4D system of channels and tabs, but with a nodes system such as Cycles proposes, it can get you to another level of productivity and creativity. You can combine almost every property of a scene object to achieve the look you want.

Hmmm, very interesting, thanks for insight. I really dont know what renderer I want to use in the future, there are so many of them and for now I am only using Maxwell for jewelry, which gives amazing results without to much hassle. I wonder, how hard would be to make realistic gold material with it, or silver!?

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JuanRender    2

Hi.

Cycles will get PBR materials in short, actually you can get nearly PBR materials with some investigation.

Bad news: caustics doesn´t render well in Cycles (as in Arnold, as far I know). And it doesn´t support colour dispersion also (you can fake it easily, no doubt, but it´s hard to render at desired quality).

My insight is that Cycles can be used for products visualization, but Maxwell is way better for this task.

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3D-Pangel    183
24 minutes ago, JuanRender said:

Hi.

Learning to use a material system handled by nodes, requires a "change of mind", no doubt. But as you get more familiar with it, it shows its strength. I like the Cinema4D system of channels and tabs, but a nodes system such as Cycles proposes, can get you to another level of production and creativity. You can combine almost every property of a scene object to achieve the look you want.

Well said.  I do believe that ultimately we will all have to learn the logic of a nodal material system as I would expect that is in MAXON's development path.  Hopefully, MAXON implements nodal materials similar to how they implemented Xpresso: something that "under the hood" to the existing interface and there if you need it to go deeper.  

So far, some of the Cycles 4D tutorials just kind of role out the nodes in a cookbook fashion: open these 7 nodes, link them this way and viola you have great art.  What I am looking for is a deeper explanation behind the "why" of each node....maybe even a discussion of all the different ways to accomplish the same effect and then why some methods are better than others.  If you are just going to slap nodes up there, I get quickly lost.

But it is a mental shift as you alluded to.  So the big question is how many mental shifts do you want to make if (like me) you believe that C4D will also one day implement a nodal material system?  Also, should MAXON implement a nodal system, then that is one less annual maintenance fee I have to pay if I don't purchase Cycles4D..

I would be enticed to gamble on Cycles4D as I would love to play with materials being able to emit light.  Also, I would like to know what is in the free Starter Pack you get should you order prior to 1/31/17.  But so far, Insydium has yet to post any links to the content of that starter pack.  I have written them twice about it and they keep promising to post that information...but so far nothing....which kind of works against providing the necessary motivation for purchasing before 1/31/17.

Overall, nothing is moving me to rush out and make a purchase.

Dave

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JuanRender    2
1 hour ago, 3D-Pangel said:

So far, some of the Cycles 4D just kind of role out the nodes in a cookbook fashion: open these 7 nodes, link them this way and viola you have great art.  What I am looking for is a deeper explanation behind the "why" of each node....maybe even a discussion of all the different ways to accomplish the same effect and then why some methods are better than others.  If you are just going to slap nodes up there, I get quickly lost.

 

You have reason at all to speak of this way of doing things, but all in all, this is also the problem with native Cinema complexly defined shaders, ¿doesn´t it? In fact, with Cycles you must understand the basics of a rendering engine (path tracer) to achieve good results. I don´t know how the integration of ProRender renderer in Cinema will isolate this "complexity" from the user, but I think you must grasp the basics of PBR rendering engines.

But hey, good news: all path tracer renderers works in a VERY similar fashion.

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JuanRender    2
46 minutes ago, 3D-Pangel said:

I would be enticed to gamble on Cycles4D as I would love to play with materials being able to emit light.  Also, I would like to know what is in the free Starter Pack you get should you order prior to 1/31/17.  But so far, Insydium has yet to post any links to the content of that starter pack.  I have written them twice about it and they keep promising to post that information...but so far nothing....which kind of works against providing the necessary motivation for purchasing before 1/31/17.

I haven´t use the Cycles starter pack yet, wich I obtained after purchasing Cycles4D, I prefer to look for Cycles tutorials (Blender) in the web. The starter pack is, basically,  a collection of shaders. The scene rendering samples, wich you can download from Insydium´s site, is by far more valuable for learning purposes: http://insydium.uk/downloads/

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nerv    259
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  • Yes.  As @JuanRender said, it's just as complicated as any other node-based system would be. (Octane, Arnold, etc).   So, it takes a while to get used to when transitioning from the native channel-based material system.  

    There are definitely some bugs and initial limitations to be worked out, but this is true for virtually any third-party renderer, as far as I know.  

    As for learning, I think Insydium gives you these quick cookbook-like tutorials so you can get a jumpstart on learning their UI, but in the end, they expect you to do a little research into how Cycles works via Blender learning resources.  

    Also, as mentioned, most node-based material systems work in a VERY similar way, so for the most part, the same theories apply across the board - even if some of the UI terminology might differ slightly.   

    The written Cycles4D manual is more detailed, and can be accessed at any point from the UI.  

    Now that I have a better understanding of how it works, my initial frustrations have turned into excitement for learning this new kind of material workflow...  even if eventually I wind up with a more established renderer, such as the afore-mentioned ones, or diving into ProRender whenever that becomes available.  

    $180 (thanks to x-particles discount) is an amazing entry price into that world. Low risk / high potential reward, in my opinion.  

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    3D-Pangel    183
    23 hours ago, JuanRender said:

    I haven´t use the Cycles starter pack yet, wich I obtained after purchasing Cycles4D, I prefer to look for Cycles tutorials (Blender) in the web. The starter pack is, basically,  a collection of shaders. The scene rendering samples, wich you can download from Insydium´s site, is by far more valuable for learning purposes: http://insydium.uk/downloads/

    Ahh...my assumption was that I could reverse engineering the materials in the starter pack but it sounds like that is not possible and better to work with the sample scenes.  

    Relative to tutorials that go beyond learning the UI, any recommended sites?  I had a quick read with this site which is good as it shows the effect that changing certain node values have on the render, but again defaults back to the cookbook format for the more complex shaders.  

    Anyone have any other Blender Cycle tutorial recommendations?

    Dave

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    nerv    259
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  • The starter pack is just a collection of materials.  You can reverse engineer them just as you could any other material.  

    Silverwing also has a FREE collection of Cycles4d materials that you can dig into and reverse engineer in the same way.  

    That's a great link, @3D-Pangel.  Super informative.  I'd be interested in seeing more suggestions if anyone has them.  

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    nerv    259
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  • Another one from today.   I do like how seamlessly cycles4d integrates with x-particles.   

    somenerv-solidsmok.jpg

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