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3D-Pangel

Cinema 4D R19 discussion!

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3D-Pangel    190

Okay....with the inevitability of the seasons, in 3 months all will be revealed about R19 (we hope).  So before we start to get into a deep wish list of expected features, I would actually like to go back to the now famous quote made on the MAXON Blog back in February of 2016 (Foundations for the Future):

Quote

 

A rich foundation of groundbreaking fundamental technologies have been created, including a highly-efficient threading system for massive data-parallelism and new optimized data structures, to name just a few. We are using the latest state of the art algorithms, compilers, tools and technologies to build the foundation that will drive Cinema 4D's progress and innovation for the next decade.

Everything is based on a highly modular architecture that allows us to combine the current Cinema 4D with the new core. This in fact took place in Release 16 and means that you are in part already experiencing the future of Cinema 4D today!

 

 

 

So the new core has been creeping into C4D since R16...and given that this new core allows for "massive data-parallelism and optimized data structures" you get the sense that ultimately C4D will crunch through huge scene files with the ease of a hot knife cutting through butter.  

So I have to ask this given that it has been two releases since then, has anyone noticed a substantial improvement in R18's power?   Three years is a long time in the computer industry.  Think of it like dog years.  So when talking about improvements over a period of 3 years you also have to factor in hardware upgrades.  So  I can't tell if it is C4D getting more powerful or my hardware is getting faster.

So did I miss something?  Do others detect the new core in action as described above?  I am not a power user by any means, so I would really love to hear from those who work in the depths of C4D's capabilities and push it to its limits.  Now remember, I am not talking about slight improvements in performance of the selection tools, spline tools, etc.  I am talking about a huge paradigm shift as promised in the quote above.  I mean "a highly efficient threading system for massive data-parallelism and new optimized data structure" is quite a huge promise....and this is from a company that doesn't make promises.  So I have to believe it to be real more so than marketing.

I guess my point is this:  real proof to me of the new core making itself known to the C4D user will be when MAXON releases some killer feature such as a fluid simulation system, Bodypaint improvements that put it on par with Mari (e.g. handling 4K images with ease) and/or an uber-instancing capability, etc.  Other programs in Studios price range (or lower) have these capabilities.  Plus when you consider that Maya has integrated their fluids tools into their motion graphic toolset, you would think that would be a real threat to C4D.  So something along those lines would make perfect sense and come at the right time for MAXON. 

But honestly, if R19 looks anything like R17 in terms of new features, it won't be pretty.  If we get improvements in R19 equivalent to version 2 of the color picker, than MAXON will begin to sound like the boy who cried wolf regarding what to expect from the new core.  In short, credibility will be lost...which is never good.....unless people can start to point out what I may have missed in R17 and R18 that shows the new core in action.  

So to be clear, I am not blaming MAXON of being too slow or not doing enough.  I could very well have missed all their excellent work since R16 based on my own understanding and expertise with C4D.  Therefore hearing about where others have felt the presence of the new core in action to the level promised in their blog post above would help temper my expectations for R19.  I think it would be healthy at this point for users to really show where they are reaping the benefits of the new core...if possible.   I have some doubt because you would have heard about this before, but maybe I just missed it.

If not, then after 3+ years of new core development, we should start to see something in R19  that makes us all realize it was worth the wait.

Dave

 

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Cerbera    1,273

Well I just paid for it, without knowing what was in it, so discussions are fine with me...

I REALLY hope it doesn't require windows 10, for example. And has a render pause button, like I've been asking for every year, for the last 7 years :)

And most of all, I hope they made OpenSubdiv work with UVs, like R18 never managed, and that we at long last get a bulletproof knife toolset with zero problems (Cut Visible Only, I'm looking at you :)

Oh, and some sexy new stuff as well, obviously ;)

CBR

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3D-Pangel    190
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  • Given your modeling skills, I am surprised you are not a beta tester.  But a better knife tool is not key evidence of a new core in action.  New core as described by MAXON points to so many other capabilities than smarter modeling algorithms....unless I am reading into "massive data parallelism" too much.

    For me, apart from the hope of what a true new core would be giving you (like fluid simulation with OpenVDB support),  I would love to see the following with the existing tool set:

    • Emissive materials --- please!!!  Very desperate for this and would change the render quality/capability in a huge way.
    • A proper symmetry tool...select an polygon, click a button....you get symmetry about that polygon regardless of where the object is located within the scene file.  Now imagine if you were to animate that capability....pretty interesting motion graphics opportunities.
    • A spot light or tube light that allows you to independently change the size of the opening at each end.  I hate using volumetric spot lights that start from a razor sharp point.  
    • The ability for lights (especially volumetric lights)  to pass through polygons shaded with transparency or alpha maps.
    • An upgrade to the sky tool to include spectral atmospheric effects.  Sorry...the existing sky tools are painfully outdated given what you accomplish with other programs like Terragen and/or Vue.

    As well as what everyone else wants (Bodypaint, viewport, etc).

    Dave

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    danijelk    23

    Any news about ProRender for c4d, if anybode knows? There's some rumor that they will stop developing it, hope that's not true...

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    zeden    21
    3 hours ago, danijelk said:

    Any news about ProRender for c4d, if anybode knows? There's some rumor that they will stop developing it, hope that's not true...

    http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=47&t=1449143

    And some renderings:

    https://twitter.com/the_glenster

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    3D-Pangel    190
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  • ProRender Features list:

    Key Features

    • Fast and accurate – it’s designed to be physically accurate, lightning fast and easy to use.
    • Hardware agnostic – if your computer can run OpenCL™ 1.2, it can run Radeon ProRender.
    • Fully integrated – for use with Autodesk® 3ds Max® 2016 SP3 and higher.
    • Multiple camera views – physical camera, depth of field, and motion blur.
    • VR creation support with panoramic and stereoscopic VR camera views.
    • Its own Environment setup – letting you work in IBL or sky mode, together with photometric or emissive light setups.
    • Supports lights from HDRI environments, letting you blend a scene in with its surroundings.
    • Physically correct material library – comes with its own material library optimized for use with our renderer, providing an easy starting and reference point for your own shaders.
    • Plays nice with others – works well with output from Substance and Quixel.
    • Supports Windows® 7, 8.1, 10.

    Not sure....but is emissive light set-ups the same as emissive materials?  If they are one-in-the-same, then my day is made if this is a feature for R19.

    But before I start celebrating, note that MAXON is not committing to implement every feature at this time.  So you may or may not see any of this in R19.   This is not our first rodeo...we know the drill on discussing new features.  

    Also, OpenCL gets updated about every 2 years which feels slow (not sure how it compares to other platforms).  Should Apple back away from the Mac Pro then how much development will be put into OpenCL? I understand that Apple did announce a new MacPro for 2018...but 5 to 6 years between hardware updates is not a good sign and until that announcement there were rumors it was being dumped.  Nevertheless, the market just seems to be going in another direction so  adopting this platform seems a bit rocky to me.

    I hope it does not turn into another pyrocluster.

    Dave

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    HSrdelic    655
    10 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    I REALLY hope it doesn't require windows 10, for example

    It won't require Win 10 and will run perfectly fine on Win 7 :)

    9 hours ago, danijelk said:

    There's some rumor that they will stop developing it

    Just a rumor, not true.

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    Cerbera    1,273
    1 minute ago, HSrdelic said:

    It won't require Win 10 and will run perfectly fine on Win 7 :)

    Woo hoo ! :D

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    bobc4d    90

    I am a simple person, I would be happy if they made it so you can select an edge hidden by the object axis without having to ALT-D to hid the object axis so you can select it.  I know its minor in the grand scheme of things but it can be a right PITA

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    Cerbera    1,273
    23 minutes ago, bobc4d said:

    I am a simple person, I would be happy if they made it so you can select an edge hidden by the object axis without having to ALT-D to hid the object axis so you can select it.  I know its minor in the grand scheme of things but it can be a right PITA

    I think you already can, my friend. I am fairly damn sure you can hold a key, and then temporarily select through the axis. Now if only I could remember what that key was, or find a single reference to it online, which I very much can't. But I am inexplicably sure there is one ! Come on cafe, put us out of our misery ;) I seem to remember I may have learned that from @3DKiwi a very long time ago, so maybe he's a good person to ask...

    CBR

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    luchifer    34

    I want (obviously not in r19 and yes,  I know some are very hard to do unless a complete rewrite)

     

    -Voronoi Fracture Cluster / Glue

    -Symmetry for modeling.

    -Enhanced Cloth Dynamics with cloth presets.

    -Improved rigging controls (face rigging)

    -Ability to tear up the Viewport filter menu.

    -Priority selection in the Viewport (joints before geometry)

    -A proper UV editor (the one we are using needs a complete re-design)

    -Let us move tags to a custom UI Pallete (It really helps when you often use tags from plugins like xparticles collider)

    -Move Modeling Axis > Orientation Axis to a Pallete button or to V hotkey.

    -Let us customize V hotkey menu.

    -Help Adobe with a Full integration with Fuse (Auto face rig script, like they had with Maya / 3ds max)

    -A display Take name info next to Layout in the top right corner of the interface would save me a lot of headaches.

    -Simulation Time Scale for dynamics as a Tag, so we can control it locally instead of globally.

    -Add a store presets button on every possible menu next to User Data (I know, easier said than done)

    -Create a New Project option, with subfolders for textures, renders and especially cache (right now we have cache files for : mograph / dynamics / hair / xparticles / realflow / turbulence)

    -Add something similar to NitroPose plugin, so we can store poses and animation clips from characters with reference icons)

    -Simplify Frame All / Geometry / Select / Element / Default into one, like Maya does, so when not selecting anything it frames everything and so on (KISS principle)

    -Let us choose the type of material C4D creates by default when double clicking on Material Manager (so we can add a third party as default like Redshift Material)

    -Let us cycle the background from dark to light or custom, useful when working with particles.

     

    Not sure if im missing something.

     

    Thanks.

     

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    virtualzapp    10

    A lot of good and interesting points here with some great expectations.

    Now, like every year, the real question is how many people will be disappointed (or will like) the new version...? To be continued...

     

    PS: Cut Tool and its "Cut Visible Only" drove me nuts on a big project, happy to see I'm not the only one ;o)

     

    Cheers

    Regis

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