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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!


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CINEMA 4Ds SDK (Software Development Kit) is changing constantly. This has to be done to reflect new functionality and changes under the hood. While we try to keep the SDK as stable as possible, from

That was the original intent of the first post on this thread.  Can anyone point out where the core is in action on past releases up to and including R18.  I was hoping Fritz would be able to elaborat

I remember people complaining before R18, saying it would bring minor updates.. and we got an enhanced knife tool plus fracture and some other goodies. The "handful of random updates" I got every year

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18 hours ago, Cutman said:

If viewport 2.0 means they've sorted the object handling that would be a tangible benefit but if viewport 2.0 is just 'pretty' that would amount to lipstick on a pig.

As far as R20 being 'The Big One' I'm not even sure what the big update everyone is waiting for any more but you can be sure this time next year someone on a forum will say R21 is going to be 'The Big One' the because it never actually arrives, it's always next year.

Well I don't know the guy who originally posted this "heard it from ____" rumor but for now that's all it is. Optimistically, Viewport 2.0 would indeed include improvements to teh object handling, and thus positively impact all sorts of workflows. Pessimistically Viewport 2.0 might just be the integration of the ProRender viewport (which is not bad per se, just not the larger solution that's been on people's minds for several years).

What R20 would be in this context is "the motherload". Big improvement to UV workflow and BodyPaint stuff, upgraded physics system, true symmetry tools etc. That too I would consider pretty optimistic. One thing i don't expect to happen is the big viewport update and the big UV and BodyPaint update... to be the same update. But that's 100% guess.

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On 7/6/2017 at 4:07 AM, Simmy said:

can you use a jiggle effector and collision deformer together to create the same result?

No you can't.  The collison deformer does not make ripples though the object that was poked.  Let's say you wanted to polk jello.  It would deform the area, but does not make the rest keep jiggling.  There was a way to have an object to make ripples, but I forget exactly.  I think it was an xpresso thing and it was really restrictive as to the use.  It did not work well with a character.

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2 minutes ago, HSrdelic said:

R19 is not out and there are talks about R20 already :)

I am certainly not at liberty to give any information which isn't already public, but big increase in manpower in last years is no secret.

Well, I'm optimistic for now that they did a great job so far. Hopefully :geek:
We'll see...

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On 08/07/2017 at 4:14 AM, Zmotive said:

Well I don't know the guy who originally posted this "heard it from ____" rumor but for now that's all it is. Optimistically, Viewport 2.0 would indeed include improvements to teh object handling, and thus positively impact all sorts of workflows. Pessimistically Viewport 2.0 might just be the integration of the ProRender viewport (which is not bad per se, just not the larger solution that's been on people's minds for several years).

What R20 would be in this context is "the motherload". Big improvement to UV workflow and BodyPaint stuff, upgraded physics system, true symmetry tools etc. That too I would consider pretty optimistic. One thing i don't expect to happen is the big viewport update and the big UV and BodyPaint update... to be the same update. But that's 100% guess.

There won't be a 'motherload' update. MAXON's parent company is a listed company and in the corporate world you maximise your IP over the longest possible time. The best C$D users can expect is a slight increase in size of updates but there's absolutely no way they'd drop what would be effectively a whole new C$D in one update when they've got all their little M$A client's expectations so pitifully low as to expect dribs and drabs updates over the next several years.

If there was much more to R19 it would've been trailed in the blog, R19 is ProRender and a handful of random updates and the opportunity to watch the competition move further away with the belief the next update is going to be the 'Big One.'

As far as R20 it is just a letter followed by two numbers, there's nothing special about it and people expecting an 'Anniversary Edition' will be sorely disappointed. There's always R21, right?

31 minutes ago, HSrdelic said:

R19 is not out and there are talks about R20 already :)

I am certainly not at liberty to give any information which isn't already public, but big increase in manpower in last years is no secret.

But you've argued in previous threads that an increase in developers doesn't necessarily increase development speed. You can't have it both ways.

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41 minutes ago, Cutman said:

As far as R20 it is just a letter followed by two numbers, there's nothing special about it and people expecting an 'Anniversary Edition' will be sorely disappointed

I am really amazed to see how easily you make such statements, as though you actually know anything about R20, which most certainly you don't. People could easily get an impression that you have certain insight in development, where you don't. All you are doing is pure speculation flavored with negativity due to your personal dissatisfaction. I am sure that many members consider you as troll, which, if you are looking to be in 3D industry in long run is very negative badge to carry.

 

41 minutes ago, Cutman said:

There won't be a 'motherload' update. MAXON's parent company is a listed company and in the corporate world you maximise your IP over the longest possible time

Well, then all companies would do that, right? In reality, especially in software, that doesn't work since such approach leads to extinction.

 

41 minutes ago, Cutman said:

But you've argued in previous threads that an increase in developers doesn't necessarily increase development speed. You can't have it both ways.

That is relative to the task at hand, not an universal principle. You can have 100's of developers but maybe not a single one who can do a specific job that is needed. On the other hand, you can have a task that is nicely scalable by adding more people.

 

If the point of your posting is simply to confront, label, badmouth and bash Cinema, MAXON, features or even members that use and love C4D then maybe it is time to move on elsewhere? You are perfectly entitled to decide that C4D is not meeting your criteria and job requirements, nothing wrong with that.

Let's do a thought experiment. So, let's say R20 is out and it is monster release with everything you hoped for and you decide to stick with C4D since it ticks all your boxes. If you are a freelancer or you will be on market at certain point, members will recall all this negativity and bashing. You would be surprised how many talented people failed to find decent work simply because their social skills were not up to certain criteria...

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58 minutes ago, Cutman said:

MAXON's parent company is a listed company and in the corporate world you maximise your IP over the longest possible time. The best C$D users can expect is a slight increase in size of updates..

How does offering slight updates maximise the IP again?  I thought offering a large/well-received update that received lots of good reviews and word of mouth would serve the IP better, as for the duration of the year people would be happy with it, stick with it, recommend it to others, see good reviews of it online etc etc etc.  A marginal upgrade would do less of all of that.  I can't see any reason at all for them to cripple things deliberately.

I've got less of a dog in this fight than others, as I'm still on Lite and barely have time to learn After Effects, but I've been reading the C4D forums since version 9, and the negative doom and gloom when various signs (new core, new hires, expanded Canadian dev team) point to the opposite sometimes feels a bit odd.

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3 hours ago, HSrdelic said:

I am really amazed to see how easily you make such statements, as though you actually know anything about R20, which most certainly you don't. People could easily get an impression that you have certain insight in development, where you don't. All you are doing is pure speculation flavored with negativity due to your personal dissatisfaction. I am sure that many members consider you as troll, which, if you are looking to be in 3D industry in long run is very negative badge to carry.

If the point of your posting is simply to confront, label, badmouth and bash Cinema, MAXON, features or even members that use and love C4D then maybe it is time to move on elsewhere? You are perfectly entitled to decide that C4D is not meeting your criteria and job requirements, nothing wrong with that.

Let's do a thought experiment. So, let's say R20 is out and it is monster release with everything you hoped for and you decide to stick with C4D since it ticks all your boxes. If you are a freelancer or you will be on market at certain point, members will recall all this negativity and bashing. You would be surprised how many talented people failed to find decent work simply because their social skills were not up to certain criteria...

To clarify, I merely stated the moniker 'R20' is nothing special, it's just a letter and two numbers and it doesn't relate to any anniversary as far as I can tell i.e. it's not a 20 (or 30) year anniversary. So don't expect an 'Anniversary Edition' where a company may go overboard on an update in 'celebration'. So you totally misread my intent like you normally do.

Let's do another thought experiment where R19 is yet another mediocre release and Cinema 4D still has a massive bottleneck in its ability to manage a large number of objects, Xpresso is dated and still single threaded and the dynamics systems are all separate entities. How are you going to spin the fact it's 4 releases with the new core and still no progress? And you wonder why paying customers might be a little fed up with waiting for any signs of progress let alone actual progress. I will not apologise to being a paying customer and being tired of waiting..waiting..waiting. Sorry that you would actually prefer to read happy clappy sky is blue and grass is green in these forums HSrdelic.

 

p.s. If R19 brought better object handling, unified dynamics and a multithreaded Xpresso replacement I would be the happiest C$D user and stop transitioning to Houdini. I would happily take everything back and say I was wrong about MAXON.

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4 minutes ago, Cutman said:

How are you going to spin the fact it's 4 releases with the new core and still no progress?

There has been a lot of progress in new features that nearly all base on new datastructure and threading functionality given by the new core.

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3 minutes ago, Fritz said:

There has been a lot of progress in new features that nearly all base on new datastructure and threading functionality given by the new core.

Thanks @Fritz for popping in. I personally understand that there new functionalities/developments would not be possible without the new core. Now how about the already existing functionalities like character animation and mograph? The major interest here is speed. Will character animation be resolved "substantially" faster than before? Eg a scene with four or six interacting characters?

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