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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!


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20 minutes ago, Cutman said:

No one forces you to read a thread and no one forces you to read a post.

I mean, it shows up in my inbox, so I don't have a lot of choice. :cry:

1 hour ago, Cutman said:

p.s. If R19 brought better object handling, unified dynamics and a multithreaded Xpresso replacement I would be the happiest C$D user and stop transitioning to Houdini. I would happily take everything back and say I was wrong about MAXON.

I don't see Houdini and C4D as competing a whole bunch. I see them as complementing one another. So, even if C4D R19 is everything you want it to be, learning Houdini would still be useful, I would think. I plan to start when I get some more free time just because I like having more tools in my toolbox.

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CINEMA 4Ds SDK (Software Development Kit) is changing constantly. This has to be done to reflect new functionality and changes under the hood. While we try to keep the SDK as stable as possible, from

That was the original intent of the first post on this thread.  Can anyone point out where the core is in action on past releases up to and including R18.  I was hoping Fritz would be able to elaborat

I remember people complaining before R18, saying it would bring minor updates.. and we got an enhanced knife tool plus fracture and some other goodies. The "handful of random updates" I got every year

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The only problem I see here is people getting too personal. It's easy to just ignore Cutman (for example) if you don't agree with him instead of calling him a troll or his attitudes shi*.

 

In less than 1 month we'll see what MAXON has to show us. In any case, Cinema 4D will still be capable of lots of things (except UVs). :D

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6 hours ago, Cutman said:

If there was much more to R19 it would've been trailed in the blog, R19 is ProRender and a handful of random updates and the opportunity to watch the competition move further away with the belief the next update is going to be the 'Big One.'...

...I will not apologise to being a paying customer and being tired of waiting..waiting..waiting. Sorry that you would actually prefer to read happy clappy sky is blue and grass is green in these forums HSrdelic.

 

I remember people complaining before R18, saying it would bring minor updates.. and we got an enhanced knife tool plus fracture and some other goodies. The "handful of random updates" I got every year, I use them on an every day basis (except for the material updates like thin film because I use Arnold). Now, because Arnold followed the Autodesk subscription only route, AMD is looking very atractive to me. Also, im not sure why unified dynamics are a must, outside of Houdini, every major company that are supported end up using third party plugins (fluids, hair, etc)  so having something as nucleous is nullified by that. Anyway, if you need what is available right now in Houdini, go for it. Dont wait for MAXON to step up, because right now Houdini is unreachable, why do you think Maya is aiming towards Mograph market instead of FX?

 

I use Cinema because I use almost all its tools in an everyday basis. Also, the majority of their plugins are aimed towards my specific needs (dem earth, xparticles). If I wouldnt find it useful I would have stopped waiting and moved on if I were you.

 

Waiting for something is the worst thing you can do. Three years ago, Modo promised Mograph and Animations tools (as in animation clips), yet they never delivered, they also promised a happy transition to Softimage users (meaning implementing XSI tools in Modo.. still waiting). Maybe I would have been forever waiting for Project Excalibur -Maya/Max merge that never happened- or the "future of modeling" that Maya also never delivered (zbrush like handling of polygons, inside Maya). Lucky me, Autodesk promised to never stop working on Softimage, right?...err.... also... didnt happen.

Roadmaps are just smoke and mirrors. Dont ask for them, they dont go anywhere.

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Nice post luchifer. Just a quick mention ... you can't really compare Arnold with ProRender. While the renders we've seen are good, they are mostly for viz. Arnold is hardcore VFX movies rendering (volumes, blur, animation, you name it), but with an easy interface.

And it can chew tons of polygons while keeping ram usage very VERY low. Add that to Cinema 4D, which generally uses less ram than Max/Maya/Modo and you got a very good combo. If you follow GSG, you'll see that Chad Ashley praises Arnold even above Octane. And I'm sure it's not just because of pretty pictures, but workflow, reliability, etc. :)

 

Edit: And I agree with with what you say about Autodesk, but Maya and Max are still very capable software, just as much as C4D.

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11 minutes ago, Unmastered said:

Nice post luchifer. Just a quick mention ... you can't really compare Arnold with ProRender. While the renders we've seen are good, they are mostly for viz. Arnold is hardcore VFX movies rendering (volumes, blur, animation, you name it), but with an easy interface.

And it can chew tons of polygons while keeping ram usage very VERY low. Add that to Cinema 4D, which generally uses less ram than Max/Maya/Modo and you got a very good combo. If you follow GSG, you'll see that Chad Ashley praises Arnold even above Octane. And I'm sure it's not just because of pretty pictures, but workflow, reliability, etc. :)

 

Edit: And I agree with with what you say about Autodesk, but Maya and Max are still very capable software, just as much as C4D.

 

Yes, the famous Arnold ASS (i still don't get the name of the acronym), as I don't work in motion pictures, I don't really need it. I mainly use Arnold because of its workflow, like the utility node, which I found amazing to create variation in materials well beyond color (AMD, please support variation shader). Also, it is very fast, despite people claiming otherwise and volumetrics are so easy to setup. I have a Xeon 2650 (48 cpu) + quadro M4000, and is as fast as octane/redshift. But, if AMD gets the job done (broadcast graphics, forensic animations, zbrush renders), Im more than happy to switch it. Im not too worried about costs (its one of the perks of working in a broadcast network), but if I wont use it, no point in keeping it.

I remember, a few years ago switching from Autodesk to C4D because 1) XSI died 2) MAXON is so damn fast for my workflow.  Its insane how much work I can output in a daily basis just because of it, I can do forensic animations in a daily basis -storing mocap data on clips within the motion system <<< please add a create folder option for stored clips>>>  and Arnold helps me during weekends with Zbrush renders.

Maya and Max are great indeed. But BOSS or Bifrost, arent tools I use everyday... if ever.

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Even I'm more optimistic about R20 than Cutman. Faster object handling is coming as is updated UV tools. It just won't be R19 however. R20 I'm picking. A lot of the stuff holding C4D back has been down to the old core. With the new core fully integrated (and it won't be in R19) then you'll start seeing better annual upgrades over the next few years. 

My prediction for R19 is AMD Prorender, updated import / exporters, some modest MoGraph enhancements, some viewport enhancements, no UV tool enhancements apart from a token gesture couple of minor tweaks, no significant modelling enhancements but one tool has probably had some love then from some under the hood stuff to make modelling / polygon construction work with the new core that's coming. Plus a handful of other enhancements e.g. team render, minor character tools and dynamic system enhancements. No material node system in R19. The faster 3D painting may or may not come in R19 following the public beta preview.

If you wanted GPU rendering then you'll be happy with R19. If not then you may be disappointed. Look out for MAXON making a big deal of it as there likely won't be much else to get excited about. We'll all know soon as Siggraph is in a few weeks time.

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6 minutes ago, Greatszalam said:

I think it's funny that we're already going into R20 speculation and R19 isn't even announced yet....

:lol:

I think it's because we are humans and not robots!! Yes R20 is a year away and yes R19 hasn't been released yet, but that doesn't mean I can't with rationale predict/guess R19 won't have MAYA-level character tools and HOUDINI-level fluid dynamics in one release. R20 is often mentioned when fast object handling is discussed as it's the biggest thing being waited. Since signs don't show R19 will be "the one" then R20 becomes the closest candidate (Should we mention R22 instead?). You hate speculation, fine but it's because MAXON hasn't given a clear road-map and people want to know the future of the software they like.

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I don't hate speculation; I was just pointing out how far ahead we're now jumping. I don't remember speculating so much two releases ahead before! We always speculate about the next release, especially as SIGGRAPH approaches. We've just upgraded the number of releases about which we are speculating.

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In the interests of general levity, I'd like to talk about R100. I'm expecting a neural net that interfaces directly with my brain, and just does whatever I think of. All this would be displayed via some sort of quantum holography, with a new tactile / sensory feedback loop system that allows me to sculpt polygons by wishing them into the right places. I hope at this point Cinema will be self-repairing, self-improving,  self-aware and engaged in perpetual cyber-war with Maya.

Oh the joy of speculation...

CBR 

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24 minutes ago, Greatszalam said:

We've just upgraded the number of releases about which we are speculating...

Yes mainly about the core and little on the revamped UV editing. Sir do you even know what series of events "forced" MAXON to start a blog? And with all the blog posts they made do you believe the post by Harald Schneider "FOUNDATIONS FOR THE FUTURE" was the most anticipated and welcome one? Isn't it about the core? Didn't Harald mention "several more releases"? What would those several more releases (Predictably culminating in R20) bring? That's why we skip R19 because the core IS the biggest thing and R19 doesn't "seem" to be the one. MAXON developer JF Yelle calls the core re-write "the most daring project"!! When does it possibly come? R19? No. Likely R20!!

The Core is being awaited in Valhala, driving eternal, shiny and chrome!!
I will probably end here.

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The first part of this chaos: non-MAXON people just need to relax and take this "what's in R19 and R20" comment that came up a few days ago as pure rumor and adjust their expectations accordingly instead of assuming any of it is correct. Might be true (about R20 being a big update), might be total BS.

The only thing that seems certain based on comments from MAXON and others is that some form of ProRender will be included in R19.

What's unknown is if that will be "the feature" this release or others of comparable stature will be included. R20 is 100% speculation on the part of 100% of the people talking about it myself included. Might as well be talking about R26; we have an equal probability of guessing right between the two.

 

The second part of this chaos is that MAXON (over time) has not done a good job of explaining the degree to which their new core has been implemented and what kind of improvements we can expect (or not expect). Goes back to the whole secrecy thing but realistically MAXON almost should not have brought it up to begin with if all they're going to do is say "new core coming" and then say not much else. It just leads to more speculation. And frankly I wouldn't be shocked if that is as intended.

Get people talking about C4D before each launch, right? Not like they'd be the first developer to float rumors or the like.

 

Personally I haven't been bothered by Cutman's posts lately nor should anyone be surprised that some people are skeptical of how much stuff is included in any given release. MAXON has a history of doing one substantial feature and then a bunch of pretty minor ones. There's all sorts of secondary discussions that can go with that (why they do it, does it make sense, etc) but that's the reality on the ground. R18 was  a little bit of a departure from that, with some solid improvements in multiple areas. The hope is that is due to the new core being mostly implemented and that future upgrades will follow the same pattern. 

Let's see at the end of this month, then we'll have something to talk about.

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