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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!


3D-Pangel

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55 minutes ago, Igor said:

Well, you need it if you seeking for help and forget to mention what version you use. You do it because it's a simple rule, but why would you care, it's not your rule it's some stupid forum rule! 

Who said it was a stupid rule? I just asked who updates this thing? If I were to ask for help, I would start specifying all the important info, like C4D version, to begin with.

Just checked and I can't add since the R14 Student/Education version is removed, which is the last I own. I'll add the R18 demo as I'm downloading it right now.

 

Peace! :)

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4 hours ago, Cutman said:


@3D-Pangel

@HSrdelic Even if you only do spinning logos surely you have greater ambition that would be better served with best in class tools or at the very least not having to work with dated features like, cloth, pyrocluster, thinking particles, xpresso, you know stuff that should have been updated years ago new core or no new core.@HSrdelic

 

 

 

If you are have greater ambition, do as everyone else does: use TFD (fluids), x-particles, Zbrush, Marvelous Designer (cloth), Realflow (not the plugin), Substance Painter, Unfold3D, whatever you need to do to fill he gaps and speed up your workflow, even Modo / Maya / Houdini. Dont stick with one app. I know its expensive, but that is just the way things are. Im excited for AMD Pro Render, because is not "another render engine", its a GPU render embeded into the root of C4D. Hopefully, it will increase the speed of my workflow, and maybe i'll stop using Arnold (~ $ 700). We have 10 seats of C4D at work, so its money well invested, and I never really liked working in Octane.

There is a plugin for cloth inside C4D, but I haven't used it, but I think you can get a demo of it.   http://www.syflex.biz/c4d.html

 

Side note.. maybe Houdini / Maya can save me money by doing everything I mention? No, I dont think so. I work in Broadcast Network, so Time IS Money. No way you can model cloth as fast as you do in Marvelous, or sculpt as fast as Zbrush. Neither Houdini or Maya can compare to a specialized app when it comes to speed, and Zbrush is a monster of an sculpting app).

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5 minutes ago, luchifer said:

If you are have greater ambition, do as everyone else does: use TFD (fluids), x-particles, Zbrush, Marvelous Designer (cloth), Realflow (not the plugin), Substance Painter, Unfold3D, whatever you need to do to fill he gaps and speed up your workflow, even Modo / Maya / Houdini. Dont stick with one app. I know its expensive, but that is just the way things are. Im excited for AMD Pro Render, because is not "another render engine", its a GPU render embeded into the root of C4D. Hopefully, it will increase the speed of my workflow, and maybe i'll stop using Arnold (~ $ 700). We have 10 seats of C4D at work, so its money well invested, and I never really liked working in Octane.

There is a plugin for cloth inside C4D, but I haven't used it, but I think you can get a demo of it.   http://www.syflex.biz/c4d.html

 

Side note.. maybe Houdini / Maya can save me money by doing everything I mention? No, I dont think so. I work in Broadcast Network, so Time IS Money. No way you can model cloth as fast as you do in Marvelous, or sculpt as fast as Zbrush. Neither Houdini or Maya can compare to a specialized app when it comes to speed, and Zbrush is a monster of an sculpting app).

@luchifer it begs the question, what is the M$A is for? You're just making excuses for MAXON not delivering their own tools. Yeah we can all spend thousands of $s on several stop gap solutions that all work as separate islands maybe OK for you but not OK for me. I've been a user for 9 years and I remember the time when MAXON was leading the curve rather than following it and the mograph tools were ahead of the game but since then MAXON has become a follower. I'm surely not the only one here that expected continual update of key features like cloth, dynamics, TP and XPresso? Most have hardly changed since they were added years ago. I'm not expecting miracles and massive updates each year but I did expect features to be kept up to date and not become so tired and in need of complete replacement.

@luchiferWe have completely different needs and I've gone as far as I intend to go with plugins and I have plenty of plugins and if it weren't for them I'd have jumped ship long ago. MAXON owe Insydium a debt of gratitude since I think (actually I know) many more people would've left had it not been for X-Particles that has covered up the atrophied state of Mograph and TP.

I've said all I need to say so I won't be posting again until after the R19 announcement.

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1 minute ago, Cutman said:

@luchifer@luchifer it begs the question, what is the M$A is for? You're just making excuses for MAXON not delivering their own tools. Yeah we can all spend thousands of $s on several stop gap solutions that all work as separate islands maybe OK for you but not OK for me.

 

Perhaps you have mistaken my post. I don't see it as Cinema 4D + gap fillers. I see all of them (Cinema included) as specialized tools. My goal is not to work with a 3D software plus friends. My goal is to make Motion Graphics Design. Cinema is just the specialized tool I need to achieve my work. No other 3d app is as fast as Cinema for the work I need. Two other apps came close, Maya (Mash), and Houdini. But Mash / Type tool are very buggy and Houdini workflow is too slow for my need. Some day an app will replace C4D, and thats ok. I am software agnostic.

 

Xparticles on the other hand, is also a tool. You simply wont find a faster/ bigger solution for particles. C4D + xparticles + GPU render combo in my toolbox are so fast, maybe that's the reason we haven't heard of "daily renders" in Houdini or Maya particles... or im wrong?

 

By all means, im open to suggestions to a faster workflow. If you want to keep the discussion open, I wont mind at all, its nice to see different point of views.

 

Final note, you dont need to spend several thousand dollars.. Blender is free and can do a lot. Its just slow for what I need, and I suppose more people think like me, because... not everyone uses Blender, right?

 

Take

25 minutes ago, Cutman said:

@luchiferWe have completely different needs and I've gone as far as I intend to go

 

Anyway, what is your goal / needs? If we can start from there, im sure plenty of people here can help you enhance your workflow.. there are always tools we aren't aware of, and some of us have knowledge outside C4D that can help -even if this is a C4D forum.

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I update my Cinema 4D version in my profile here or more accurately used to. I'm now stuck on R16 having seen the light that MAXON was going to take years to bring me the tools that I wanted. I've given up on waiting.

If MAXON had some balls then they would do a sneak preview of the new super fast core that's coming in an upcoming version (other than R19 as it's not coming in that). That would shut a lot of people up and build some enthusiasm.

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3 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

I update my Cinema 4D version in my profile here or more accurately used to. I'm now stuck on R16 having seen the light that MAXON was going to take years to bring me the tools that I wanted. I've given up on waiting.

If MAXON had some balls then they would do a sneak preview of the new super fast core that's coming in an upcoming version (other than R19 as it's not coming in that). That would shut a lot of people up and build some enthusiasm.

I doubt MAXON is going to change their ways to shut up the same 8 people that are bitching on this forum. I know for a fact most C4D users have no idea this divide is even happening, as most don't read C4D forums. If Greyscale Gorrilla started posting Houdini tutorials and bitching about upgrades, then maybe MAXON might start breaking a sweat. 

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11 hours ago, mbyrne said:

hope I don't get someone in trouble for this info, but seems MAXON got R20 SDK out for plugin developers and that there are massive changes indicating huge overhaul already being done. I am no developer and have no clue about what SDK means but I was told that this is some serious s..t is on the way :-O

Can someone from MAXON confirm this?

SDK = Software Development Kit

It's a collection of APIs (or extensions of publicly available APIs like C++) that allow developers to use tools specifically designed for C4D development.

 

I know there are some plugin developers lurking around here at times. Can one of you confirm the statement above (that the R20 SDK is out and the contents of said kit is indicative of major changes being made to the application)? We probably can't infer that the big changes in the R20 SDK mean big changes in R20 (that would simply be the starting point), but at a minimum we could infer that big changes have been made under the hood, and that there are tools available to leverage said changes.

If true, this is a bigger revelation than the earlier comment about R20 which got us all talking, because it's concrete information.

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4 hours ago, Zmotive said:

I know there are some plugin developers lurking around here at times. Can one of you confirm the statement above (that the R20 SDK is out ...

I have long time debated if participating in this thread would be worthwhile, as most of the discussion is just over the top of my head.
While I am no beta tester and but a small developer, I can only confirm what I know. NO R20 SDK is available right now to developers. Not even the R19.
As far as I know, the only SDK available is the one that ships with the released version of Cinema 4D ... or there should be some hidden developer conspiracy, which I don't know about.

The mention of R20 SDK being available was a surprise to me, and I quite spend some time on the plugincafe (the official MAXON's 3rd party developers website/forum). Still haven't found where they're hiding the R20 SDK download button ... or the R19 one for that matter.

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10 hours ago, smibrand said:

If Greyscale Gorrilla started posting Houdini tutorials and bitching about upgrades, then maybe MAXON might start breaking a sweat. 

Those who complain more generally are generalists. Is like Autodesk and 3ds Max users. Most are generalist or small shops and that's why the move from perpetual to rental pisses them off. You don't see Maya artists complaining that much? Mostly because Maya users are generally employees, so they really don't care about that since it's the company who buys the software, not them.

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18 hours ago, luchifer said:

Anyway, what is your goal / needs? If we can start from there, im sure plenty of people here can help you enhance your workflow.. there are always tools we aren't aware of, and some of us have knowledge outside C4D that can help -even if this is a C4D forum.

I wasn't going to reply but I believe your offer of assistance has good intent and it would be rude not to answer your question.

I'm a traditional filmmaker for the most part but I have a secondary interest in realtime projection mapping and making visual art based installations. I am extremely experienced with C$D and don't have any workflow issues at all for anyone to help solve. The issues come from not having the granularity of control required to make the work I want to make i.e. rules based and generative graphics which visualise complex ideas and data.

The object handling of C$D has become a 'cause celebre' but another concern for me after object handling is that Xpresso is so limited in its scope and shows no sign of ever having the power and granularity of control that XSI and Houdini users take for granted.

Someone said previously they didn't understand why anyone would need unified dynamics and hadn't needed that in their work ever, consider X-Particles as good as it is has it's own dynamics system and cannot communicate with C$D's native dynamics because MAXON don't allow access to the APIs. If I create a simple growth based structure with trails and splinemesher in X-Particles how do I make that growing structure dynamic, control the strength of particle constraints on an algorithmic basis and make the whole structure react to all of C$D's dynamics such as aerodynamic wind such that certain areas of growth catch the wind and break off?

The above example came from a real project where I was asked to visualise growth of a company reacting to various financial storms for their AGM. The project was interesting and went well but I didn't get as close to my intended vision as workarounds had to be made. After a while the question/answer system of XP becomes unwieldy but there's no other choice in C$D at the moment given TP is incapable of behaving like a modern particle system.

So I decided Houdini is the best bet for this type of visualisation work going forward and I'm making progress learning but if MAXON released significantly updated XPresso and TP or a complete high performance and deep replacement I give C$D another go but if that ever happens I'll probably be to ensconced in Houdini to look back. There's, frankly, more likelihood of Insydium bringing a complete replacement of Xpresso and TP to C$D than MAXON. 

 

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8 hours ago, C4DS said:

I have long time debated if participating in this thread would be worthwhile, as most of the discussion is just over the top of my head.
While I am no beta tester and but a small developer, I can only confirm what I know. NO R20 SDK is available right now to developers. Not even the R19.
As far as I know, the only SDK available is the one that ships with the released version of Cinema 4D ... or there should be some hidden developer conspiracy, which I don't know about.

The mention of R20 SDK being available was a surprise to me, and I quite spend some time on the plugincafe (the official MAXON's 3rd party developers website/forum). Still haven't found where they're hiding the R20 SDK download button ... or the R19 one for that matter.

Thanks for confirming. As suspected sounds like someone floating baseless R20 rumors so they make it into the forums. Made no sense to me that the R20 SDK would be out this early, but wanted to ask someone with accesss to the SDKs. This casts further doubt / suspicion on the earlier comment about R20 being a big deal, as well.

We should put all talk of R20 to bed until next year. There's not a shred of evidence that any of these rumors are based in fact.

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6 hours ago, Zmotive said:

We should put all talk of R20 to bed until next year. There's not a shred of evidence that any of these rumors are based in fact.

Next year?  Trust me, the "R20 wish list" thread will be brought up in a little over two weeks on August 1, the day after R19 is announced at Siggraph.  

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