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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!


3D-Pangel

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2 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Next year?  Trust me, the "R20 wish list" thread will be brought up in a little over two weeks on August 1, the day after R19 is announced at Siggraph.  

Haha. Fair point. I enjoy a good wish list thread as much as the next person. 

I should say "all speculative talk" because I doubt very much (wish list thread or not) that anyone will have a shred of concrete info until sometime in 2018. :)

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On 7/13/2017 at 5:34 PM, C4DS said:

I have long time debated if participating in this thread would be worthwhile, as most of the discussion is just over the top of my head.
While I am no beta tester and but a small developer, I can only confirm what I know. NO R20 SDK is available right now to developers. Not even the R19.
As far as I know, the only SDK available is the one that ships with the released version of Cinema 4D ... or there should be some hidden developer conspiracy, which I don't know about.

The mention of R20 SDK being available was a surprise to me, and I quite spend some time on the plugincafe (the official MAXON's 3rd party developers website/forum). Still haven't found where they're hiding the R20 SDK download button ... or the R19 one for that matter.

You're assuming that all plugin developers are being treated equally by MAXON. Sure the R19 and R20 SDK won't be out to the general public but there will be a select group of people other that Beta testers with VIP access to MAXON.  These people will have signed a non disclosure agreement so aren't able to say anything.

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3 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

You're assuming that all plugin developers are being treated equally by MAXON. Sure the R19 and R20 SDK won't be out to the general public but there will be a select group of people other that Beta testers with VIP access to MAXON.  These people will have signed a non disclosure agreement so aren't able to say anything.

Not sure I'd assume they would release R20 SDK to any tester this early. Or that it would even be finished right now necessarily. The assumptions go both ways but this one smells like BS to me. 

Don't the beta periods for one version follow the release of the previous version typically, including SDKs that go with those betas? Also I would think people could be a little more liberal with information about the SDK but maybe not.

Not buying this one though until someone more directly connected to MAXON comments in the affirmative about early release of said SDK to some people.

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1 hour ago, Zmotive said:

Not sure I'd assume they would release R20 SDK to any tester this early. Or that it would even be finished right now necessarily. The assumptions go both ways but this one smells like BS to me. 

Don't the beta periods for one version follow the release of the previous version typically, including SDKs that go with those betas? Also I would think people could be a little more liberal with information about the SDK but maybe not.

Not buying this one though until someone more directly connected to MAXON comments in the affirmative about early release of said SDK to some people.

The problem is no one is allowed to comment about internal development so whether a R20 SDK is available to VIP's I don't know. My guess is it's not especially since R19 is not out yet. That said I can recall testing alpha versions of C4D with some of the new stuff for the next but one version when the next version wasn't out yet. e.g. testing stuff in R16 alpha when R14 was the current version and R15 was to be released soon. 

My guess is the VIP plugin developers are aware of major changes in R20 since they have access to MAXON's internal forums (just as I used to have when I was a Beta tester). They are then aware what's coming. At some point later this year or early next year and well before R20 is launched those VIP developers will be running Alpha or Beta versions of R20. 

And by VIP plugin developers I'm not really referring to plugins. Think of external render engines and significant C4D compatible add ons. These guys would need a lot of lead time to make changes. Your average plugin developer has to wait until shipping time and the release of the SDK.

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6 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

The problem is no one is allowed to comment about internal development so whether a R20 SDK is available to VIP's I don't know. My guess is it's not especially since R19 is not out yet. That said I can recall testing alpha versions of C4D with some of the new stuff for the next but one version when the next version wasn't out yet. e.g. testing stuff in R16 alpha when R14 was the current version and R15 was to be released soon. 

My guess is the VIP plugin developers are aware of major changes in R20 since they have access to MAXON's internal forums (just as I used to have when I was a Beta tester). They are then aware what's coming. At some point later this year or early next year and well before R20 is launched those VIP developers will be running Alpha or Beta versions of R20. 

And by VIP plugin developers I'm not really referring to plugins. Think of external render engines and significant C4D compatible add ons. These guys would need a lot of lead time to make changes. Your average plugin developer has to wait until shipping time and the release of the SDK.

If the rumour is true (which I doubt) then only a small number of people would have the information therefore MAXON would have a very small group of suspects who broke an NDA.

I can only think of one VIP plugin developer and that's Insydium without them C$D would be a very sorry state of affairs and I would hope they had as much advanced warning as possible of an significant core or SDK changes. I can't think of a more important developer frankly. *BTW, I'm not for one moment suggesting the alleged leak/rumour came Insydium before anyone goes there.

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Kiwi: if there are seperate alpha and beta groups and the former is a smaller group of VIPs that gets stuff in advance of the typical (closed) beta schedule, it's possible they would have R20 features and/or SDK info. But that makes it even less likely it would've been leaked IMO.

I used to alpha test software for Adobe, and I'd be shocked if that relatively small group wasn't substantially larger than the group MAXON has designated. Seems logical if this is the system they're using, it would be pretty small. One or two devs from key organizations like SideFX, AMD, Nvidia, Allegorthmic, maybe a company like Disney that generates actual open source tech... and then half-dozen high-echelon plugin developers (Insydium, the VRay guys, Otoy, etc). Only companies whose software plays a crucial role for a large percentage of users. Most popular plugins out there (GSG, et al) would not require alpha access in this scenario.

And going back to Adobe, there were never leaks of alpha features that I can recall. Even back then people in those positions respected it too much / were too vested. And as Cutman points out, easier to identify who might've actually leaked something in that scenario.

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All I'm saying is not all plugin developers are treated equally. A handful of VIP developers will likely get there hands on the next version at the same time as the Beta testers do. Since R19 is not out yet I doubt anyone other than MAXON is running a development version of R20. For sure a couple will be running R19 now and they will be making there product compatible if required.

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5 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

All I'm saying is not all plugin developers are treated equally. A handful of VIP developers will likely get there hands on the next version at the same time as the Beta testers do. Since R19 is not out yet I doubt anyone other than MAXON is running a development version of R20. For sure a couple will be running R19 now and they will be making there product compatible if required.

All fine and good. Except the rumor was "the R20 SDK is out and there's crazy stuff in it!" (paraphrasing). THAT, IMO, is BS. I doubt that it's out, and if it's out it's to a very small alpha group / VIP group as you call it, and the odds that any of them leaked anything to some random forum poster is miniscule.

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I actually think when the new core and super fast object handling comes, then there will be some crazy stuff / massive changes. Xpresso as we know it will likely be replaced by a complete node system or Xpresso 2 for everything including materials.  I'm looking forward to it. I may even do one of my epic reviews. 

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3 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

 Xpresso as we know it will likely be replaced by a complete node system or Xpresso 2 for everything including materials. 

 

I hope the material nodes will work in conjunction with xpresso nodes. that kind of functionality is already implemented in redshift for cinema 4d. it works with xpresso nodes as well as with its own material nodes.
It makes the shading process much flexible and powerful.

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9 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

I actually think when the new core and super fast object handling comes, then there will be some crazy stuff / massive changes. Xpresso as we know it will likely be replaced by a complete node system or Xpresso 2 for everything including materials.  I'm looking forward to it. I may even do one of my epic reviews. 

Would that review be written using the demo or would you be seriously considering purchasing an R20 license? 

Just wondering if there is a possible future where you come back as a current (and up to date) user.

Here's hoping for that day because should it happen then MAXON must have released an amazing version.

Until then, we will keep the light on for you!

Dave

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3 hours ago, 3D-Pangel said:

Would that review be written using the demo or would you be seriously considering purchasing an R20 license? 

Just wondering if there is a possible future where you come back as a current (and up to date) user.

Here's hoping for that day because should it happen then MAXON must have released an amazing version.

Until then, we will keep the light on for you!

Dave

While I support this hope of one day having 3DKiwi back at the Cafe the way he used to be, I don't think we'll ever see that day.
No offense meant, and in no way am I judging.
But I guess he's more happy using MODO than he ever was/will be using Cinema 4D ... of course, I am only assuming here. To each his own, and while we would like to prefer otherwise, we have to accept the decision made.

As for a written review (or any other format), I would really be looking forward to that. Be it using a demo, NFR, beta ... or what not.

Now, back to your regular R19 discussions.

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