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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!

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bobc4d    119
1 hour ago, C4DS said:

While I support this hope of one day having 3DKiwi back at the Cafe the way he used to be, I don't think we'll ever see that day.
No offense meant, and in no way am I judging.
But I guess he's more happy using MODO than he ever was/will be using Cinema 4D ... of course, I am only assuming here. To each his own, and while we would like to prefer otherwise, we have to accept the decision made.

As for a written review (or any other format), I would really be looking forward to that. Be it using a demo, NFR, beta ... or what not.

Now, back to your regular R19 discussions.

actually Nigel did say that "IF" C4D came out with a strong tools/update he finds useful for his modeling then he would consider coming back .

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3DKiwi    356
41 minutes ago, bobc4d said:

actually Nigel did say that "IF" C4D came out with a strong tools/update he finds useful for his modeling then he would consider coming back .

Correct. Any potential review of the super duper R20 would be done with the demo version. I think if I ever do get back into C4D it would be the base version. Studio is way over priced and the base version has most of the stuff I use. Actually Blender is worth keeping an eye on as it's getting to be a strong 3D app. Somewhere I've seen a replacement and more conventional gui for it.

Off topic. The developers of Modo are doing a good job. Stability isn't an issue. I've been running the latest 11.1 for a couple of weeks and it hasn't crashed once. Like C4D users there's plenty of people complaining. I'm reasonably happy with what they are doing. The upgrade pricing system has changed that some don't like as it's moved to a MAXON like MSA system although it's a bit more flexible allowing you to skip years but then have to pay a higher annual maintenence fee. I plan to pay the annual $399 US.

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Zmotive    59
21 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:

I actually think when the new core and super fast object handling comes, then there will be some crazy stuff / massive changes. Xpresso as we know it will likely be replaced by a complete node system or Xpresso 2 for everything including materials.  I'm looking forward to it. I may even do one of my epic reviews. 

 

17 hours ago, merkvilson said:

I hope the material nodes will work in conjunction with xpresso nodes. that kind of functionality is already implemented in redshift for cinema 4d. it works with xpresso nodes as well as with its own material nodes.
It makes the shading process much flexible and powerful.

 

Agree if they ever overhaul Xpresso and add nodal materials that they should be tightly integrated. It should feel like one unified component of the GUI. This happens to be an area where MAXON excels traditionally so if it happens I don't have much doubt it will feel seamless.

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10 hours ago, Zmotive said:

 

 

Agree if they ever overhaul Xpresso and add nodal materials that they should be tightly integrated. 

If it ever happens I sincerely hope they will rethink the legibility of Xpresso and think about adding more visual clues into the nodes which describe their function at a glance. I find it one of the worst nodal systems for following the flow of the programming. Getting someone else's Xpresso rig I've always found a huge task to 'read' what's going on and debugging is a nightmare.

I'm well used to nodal system having used Quartz composer, Vuo, shake, nuke, Houdini and Touch Designer etc but there has always been something about Xpresso that simply has not gelled. I'm sure the nodes could be given badges to denote function at the very least to identify objects or tags or whatever. I'm surprised it never happened.

I hope they take the opportunity to rip up Xpresso and start again with a fresh canvass concentrating on performance, readability and ease of debugging.

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Greatszalam    82
4 hours ago, Cutman said:

Getting someone else's Xpresso rig I've always found a huge task to 'read' what's going on and debugging is a nightmare.

Getting back into one of my OWN Xpresso rig after being away from a project for a while is often a huge task too.

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3D-Pangel    235
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  • 10 minutes ago, blutz said:

     

    I won't give any information about R20 here, so please don't start asking. We will announce news, when it is time to announce them.

     

    So essentially, big changes to the SDK may not always immediately indicate big changes in functionality to the user (the single to double precision change in R12 is a perfect example.) but are introduced as they create a more powerful foundation to future plugin development. Yes...makes perfect sense and while we should always temper rumor with facts, please understand that the years of anticipation MAXON has cultivated over the new core can create an over-whelming desire for unbridled speculation. Please don't fault us for that or MBryne for not containing his excitement better.

    Also happy to know that MAXON developers are watching this thread!

    Dave

     

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    graphos    31

    I just wanted to add for people who keep saying new core doesn't coming, if you lok at the current sdk you will see a lot of function accept a thread as argument for being executed into another thread.

    Even if multi threaded doesn't mean multi processor, it's show us, MAXON try to parallelize their core, and it's a huge step for making it working into multiple processor ;)

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    Zmotive    59

    mbyrne: Thanks for your clarifications. Sounds like you didn't get this info second hand so benefit of the doubt is warranted I guess.

    Blutz: thanks for posting. Can't speak for anyone else but for my part I understand that big changes in an SDK usually but don't always accompany big changes with the parent app, and vice-versa (small changes in SDK don't always mean small changes in the app). Mostly this was a question of where did the rumor come from and with the information given (which was little) did it make any sense.

    All things are possible as they say but I usually go with Occam's Razor myself when it comes to guessing what software developers are going to do or why they did what they did. And most of the time the answer is, not as much as what's rumored or not the conspiracy. :)

    graphos: also a good sign if true.

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    14 hours ago, graphos said:

    I just wanted to add for people who keep saying new core doesn't coming, if you lok at the current sdk you will see a lot of function accept a thread as argument for being executed into another thread.

    Even if multi threaded doesn't mean multi processor, it's show us, MAXON try to parallelize their core, and it's a huge step for making it working into multiple processor ;)

    I cannot recall a single post from anyone who has said the new core isn't coming. The new core was released with R16.

    The big unanswered questions are whether increased features and functionality of C$D will be deep enough and arrive in a reasonable timescale. There is absolutely no evidence so far of any profound new toolset and no mention of when we might see some significant update to C$D only officially 'several more releases'. Several in English means 3+, so don't hold your breath.

    Your second paragraph makes absolutely no sense to me.

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    Fastbee    78

    If I was MAXON I would use all this interest people have around this time to say here are some features we could work on for R20.  Please vote on the top X you would like to see in R20 in order of which we would like first.  They could not promise they would actually accomplish any of the things on the list, even if they do get voted as number 1, but just so they could see what people really want and show at the same time what they are thinking on adding eventually.  Let people add stuff to the list as well if not on the list.  There could be crazy stuff on the list like neural interface so people would know it's complete fantasy.  We need the fantasy first to make what has not been made.  Fantasy is how every idea starts.  People fantasized flying and going to space long before we went.  I say it's time to get a peak into what future MAXON's fantasies are so the public can help to improve on the basic ideas before they are started to be made, and so MAXON can see what we really want.  It's a win win.  To make it even more unofficial the poll could be posted here on the cafe, but I think they should have it on their website.

     

    I do understand why they don't want to talk about plans in any way.  People will see the list and say why isn't everything on the list not in the next version.  The competition might see things on the list and say that is a good idea.  We should make that first.  So here is an alternate idea.  An official MAXON CINEMA 4D future of C4D competition.  In this people look at what tools C4D has now.  They think of realistically what C4D could be while giving as much detail as possible for any new tool they are to add.  This is much different than a survey.  In a survey people don't spend much time on it.  In this people would think really hard at all the specifics of the new tools.  For instance, if they say better undo functionality they can't just say make it better.  They would have to say the following plus more, "Change the undo redo to a tree graph so if something is undone, then some things are done, it forms a new branch.  Later if they rather go back to the original branch it can be clicked on to go back to where they were before they originally undid anything."  Drawings and graphics would be welcome.  The prize could be anything MAXON sees fit.  An offer for a job as a future tool developer could be a prize.  With the internet that person does not even have to move to MAXON HQ to work in that position.  Have them sign an NDA and talk to them over skype with all the things they write and draw up via dropbox or something.  The option of working at the HQ could also be an option.  They could not only be used to think of future tools they could be used to think of ways to improve the ease of use and specifics of a tools that is currently being worked on.  They could read all the suggestions that MAXON gets in for C4D.  I guess the reason I say this is because a big problem I see is even with the tools C4D has released they have not been put in as well as they could be.  You can't have the same person that codes be the one to imagine exactly everything about the tool.  There is a reason Nintendo has someone like Shigeru Miyamoto when he was not a programmer to think of the game concept ideas.  Imagining what could be is a lot different than actually doing it.


    Please excuse the long post I really get into all the details of ideas like this.  I wasn't going to post it, but I wrote a lot and it took me a while, so I'm posting it.

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    HSrdelic    2,685

    @Fastbee

    You are assuming developers actually do the design, which is not true, even though some contribute to design. Even the smallest companies have design teams :)
     

     

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