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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!


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11 hours ago, blutz said:

We never (at least since I am working for MAXON) distinguished between a .5 and a full release during planning and development. Which is also the reason, why we ditched the .5 versions.

As far as I recall, the original idea behind labeling releases 0.5 and 1 was not to have big number in version

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CINEMA 4Ds SDK (Software Development Kit) is changing constantly. This has to be done to reflect new functionality and changes under the hood. While we try to keep the SDK as stable as possible, from

That was the original intent of the first post on this thread.  Can anyone point out where the core is in action on past releases up to and including R18.  I was hoping Fritz would be able to elaborat

I remember people complaining before R18, saying it would bring minor updates.. and we got an enhanced knife tool plus fracture and some other goodies. The "handful of random updates" I got every year

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28 minutes ago, HSrdelic said:

As far as I recall, the original idea behind labeling releases 0.5 and 1 was not to have big number in version

Well, we may reach version 20 anyway, unless MAXON starts to bring in a new numbering system, like Cinema 4D NC1 (for new core) :confused::lol:.

I remember that Adobe also started to bring in CS for Photoshop.

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has anyone here used maya's mash? i was talking to a guy who uses maya, he says it crashes relentlessly on anything even modestly complex. 

 

people seem to forget that all these "announced features" that other software have are only their "highlights" you go on their forums and you see people bitching about stuff just as much if not more. And some features that they are are plain mind blowing that they didn't have before. For example dynamic text objects? ones that don't bake down into geometry once you make them? maya and modo only got them recently. I saw maya demonstrating that you can put text on a spline now.. Now just imagine all the other stuff that we take for granted not being present there. 

 

I have not found any software which lets me build stuff that is this easy to modify with client feedback. Houdini comes close, but the actual building stage takes waay longer than in c4d. This whole drag and drop thing they have in the OM is unparalleled. 

 

This is what maya's obect manager looks like... good luck setting up your mograph..

aDnc7Dd.png

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The same can be said the other way around if you do other things except Motion Graphics. If we read what it says on MAXON site, your assessment is right for the Broadcast version. Now, since the Studio version says "high-end 3D", I would say it's lacking in some areas. Wouldn't you?

 

c4d.thumb.png.6f25dd484a5916dd40934cc541f8f620.png

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7 hours ago, Zmotive said:

Hard to say whether it's a minority or not. First you have to know the population of regular users then the proportion who post in places like this, then those who don't post in places like this but are in agreement with the complaints. I don't think anyone knows that number.

 

For my part I am treating this with (I guess) a calm cynicism. I really did get more of a laugh out of yesterday's blog post than any anger or bad vibe. I don't fault MAXON for trying to tow the line, it's just funny the manner in which they go about it. Not going to freak out if  R19 is not what I want (neither should anyone else — we knew all along it was a possibility this would be a limited update). And if I'm pleasantly surprised, great. Everyone spoke their part for R17, and some larger scale progress in R18... now we seem to be on the verge of another modest update. MAXON knows exactly what the "big ticket issues" are with this and other C4D communities (because they're largely the same issues and have been talked about for a long time). They know what's at stake here over the next 12+ months. They'll either deliver or they won't.

 

The way I'm going to handle is the same as R17: if it hits the mark, MSA all the way. If the improvements have limited impact on what I do, I'll pay the extra $350 next year (basically pay $900-something to "catch up" instead of $650) — same as when R18 came out and they gave people who skipped R17 a price break. Or if there's no price break then R20 will have to deliver most of what I need to get a smooth workflow on Mac or I'll stick with R18, maybe (regrettably) consider diving into Houdini or Blender. Blender 2.8 in particular should be very nice except the UI, but there are third party fixes for that and over the course of a year no reason to think they can't make big improvements to the UI / interaction metaphors. The changed panels and iconography are already on the roadmap.

 

Holding out some hope that Pro Render can improve workflows other than static modelling and materials / lighting, or that the "hidden feature" is a big boost to physics / dynamics / mograph. Going to "cynically assume" at this point there is little chance of a change to object management, the UV tools other people have been asking for, etc. Maya 2018 was announced today I think there was some additional motion graphics stuff built into it — maybe MAXON does some things this year to re-establish C4D as the pre-eminent motion graphics app (that is to say build on their lead in a big way / not let the others catch up). I could live with that. We shall see.

 

Whatever the case we don't need to bash MAXON but nor do we need to sugar-coat our concerns.

Large corporations are spending millions analysing social media because they know the so-called 'vocal minority' actually represent millions of customers, TV viewing figures have been accurately calculated by small but representative sample sizes in similar ways for years. Forums attract a wide variety of users and it's very likely the small sample is highly representative of a wider customer base.

 

Forward looking companies actually actively seek customer feedback and are as happy to received negative feedback as they re to receive positive feedback. They don't want the silent majority simply moving on to a competitors product and are very quick to put concerns to bed and do better. Companies that rest on their laurels and ignore feedback time and time again find they have a rude awakening. Mindshare is very important and once lost it's very difficult to regain, remember Lightwave when it had the mindshare, well botched upgrades and poor communication saw its position diminish rapidly and it never recovered users.

 

Th real reason for these R19 style threads (in ALL software forums) is that there is absolutely no real competition in the 3D landscape. Autodesk's buying up of competing software has allowed the whole sector to get lazy and not compete, imagine if Max and XSI were still independent. Companies can effectively charge what they want (there's no downward pressure on pricing), they can provide as limited updates as they can get away with and to put the icing on the cake they have the ability to force people onto subscriptions or M$As where fear of stopping payment either results in you having no software or having to pay a 'fine' to get back on the wagon. This isn't what we were promised Capitalism would deliver, this is Crony Capitalism, unadulterated Neoliberalism that just sees customers as an asset to exploit so the shareholding elite can go buy another Greek island.

 

As the great man John Joseph Lydon said, "Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

40 minutes ago, Unmastered said:

The same can be said the other way around if you do other things except Motion Graphics. If we read what it says on MAXON site, your assessment is right for the Broadcast version. Now, since the Studio version says "high-end 3D", I would say it's lacking in some areas. Wouldn't you?

 

c4d.thumb.png.6f25dd484a5916dd40934cc541f8f620.png

 

So high-end that the annual video that accompanies the new release will be filled will elements generated in Houdini, Realflow and rendered with Arnold...

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filled with elements generated by other software is a great indicator of how well cinema4D plays with other software and how much choice you have when creating stuff. 

 

Which is really important to studios and professionals... 

 

also no competition? modo, houdini, clarisse etc.. 

 

I agree i really dislike autodesk for just buying up everything... but thats not really a MAXON problem... 

 

If you feel cheated, you are free to use anything you want. Just as a person who has been working professionally with c4d for a long time, im saying that all the bitching and winging here is largely unwarranted.. Cinema4D has never been as popular as it is now. 

 

also having things dynamic is not just a mograph thing. I do stage design for tv shows, and all kinds of stuff which needs rapid adjustments. 

 

re: what it lacks. There is software that fills those cracks without too much effort. And honestly if you work proffesionally the price of this package should really not be an issue. yeah others are cheaper, but its still all rather low anyway. If you work professionally and charge less than $300/day you should raise your rates and stop undercutting your fellow artists. at $300/day, thats slightly over 2 days for MSA and just over 11days of work for the whole package. Comapre that to any other profession and its equipment cost.. And then compare the complexity of a package like cinema4D to fishing rods.. 

 

For hobbyists it defintly sucks, i see that. I do believe MAXON should introduce an indie version like houdini has. But its up to them, its their product its up to them to manage it how they see fit. 

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4 minutes ago, Sreckom said:

Let me go slightly off topic, how much would cost me to to upgrade from R17 to R19? 

Providing they dont put the price up for r19 as it stands £1080 plus vat £1296 for me in the UK.  Thats based on r16 to r18, two versions.

 

Dan

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I think it's kind of funny that both Maya and Modo can justify this year's releases being short on new features by explaining that they're 'stability' releases. Cinema can't use that as a cover because it's always been rock solid. So, in effect, MAXON gets hammered for being the good guys. Presumably it takes longer to develop a new feature that's rock solid rather than Modo's past logic which seemed to be to release new features that were filled with bugs, rarely worked as advertised and often crashed the program and hope no one would notice.

 

 

 

 

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I don't think anybody is giving a pass at Maya. Maya 2017 was terrible and got lots of complains. But if you see the last Maya 2017 update, there was a ton of new features and it's said that stability is improved.

 

I'm only using Maya for particles and fluids (no BiFrost). I was able to push 40 million particles on an exercise and Maya 2017 didn't crash, even on my modest notebook.

 

As for Modo ... go to the Foundry community. I would say they are more aggressive of lately than the C4D artists on this thread. Also keep in mind that today, apart from Houdini (and not really if you count Indie), Cinema 4D is the most expensive DCC out there.

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2 hours ago, Unmastered said:

I don't think anybody is giving a pass at Maya. Maya 2017 was terrible and got lots of complains. But if you see the last Maya 2017 update, there was a ton of new features and it's said that stability is improved.

 

Well.. it "only" took them a full year to fix the bugs they introduced in the first place.

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