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Cinema 4D R19 discussion!

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57 minutes ago, virtualzapp said:

I get your point, but I think what was indirectly mentioned before is that there are some priorities.

For instance, for years people are almost begging to have upgraded UVs stuff and bodypaint. So yeah, new render engine is fine, why not, but was it requested by the user community as a top prority, I don't think so.

Now, don't misunderstand me, I do like things moving forward, and MAXON learnt as they are now communicating more etc..., but priorities guys... (sigh)

 

Cheers

Regis

Yeah, I guess I missed the point on priorities and to be honest I would be just as excited for UVs / Bodypaint to get some love.  The luxury of being a hobbiest is that the updates do not impact me so much. If I was in a production environment with these jobs paying those bills my views would be different I'm sure.

 

I also remember being excited for the physical renderer when it came out but since I mostly still use standard as it has been quicker to get out my animations and the DOF and Motion blur I was excited about ended still be easier to add with maps and after effects.

 

 

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MAXON has to please everyone, and thats not easy when their software is so versatile. I hope that they just prioritize their resources into things that the majority needs, not the few.  General Speed, view port upgrades, better modelling with full symmetry support, Uv mapping, refine cloth dynamics,  all has to come in the process before we get to render out our projects.

I have dedicated software for Sculpting, Uv mapping, texture painting, cloth simulation, Render engine, but I am still having to pay for C4D studio upgrades for a application that perpetually cost a heck of allot of money, and to an extent should be able to do what all my dedicated apps do, but maybe not as refined, but certainly up there with other high end software.  C4D ease of use holds a great deal of value in my eyes, and with futher upgrades on areas that have been left for a while it will do even better than it is now.

 

Dan

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The inclusion of a new render engine is a big deal for any 3d app. 3dsmax / Maya made a big deal out of Arnold (and before that they have the industry standard Mental Ray), Blender's Cycles GPU engine is a great way to 'sell' their free software. Mantra is recognized as a powerful engine, Zbrush own render engine has a lot of functionality, Poser has Superfly engine, and yet all of them have 3rd party render engines to fill the needs of everyone (Octane / Redshift / Arnold / Furryball / Renderman / Cycles / Keyshot / etc).

 

The fact that some users wont need it because they already have a 3rd party engine, doesnt meant It isnt a great update. We could get Bifrost and Im pretty sure some users wont ever need it, or we can get Maya's nparticles and hopefully I wont be complaining about it because I already have x-particles.

 

You know what is a great update? One that doesn't fill the software with bugs. How many versions has Modo up to this point? 10? 11? Has it ever launched a new version without bugs? Does Maya / 3dsmax fix theirs? One would think after 10+ years they will know how to stop their apps from crashing, right? I mean, it took almost a year and three extensions for Autodesk to fix their own 2017 update, and still has weird issues. Is that what we want?

 

P.s. I use Cinema 4D Takes all the time... pretty strange, because that update sucked, right?

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7 hours ago, luchifer said:

The inclusion of a new render engine is a big deal for any 3d app. 3dsmax / Maya made a big deal out of Arnold (and before that they have the industry standard Mental Ray), Blender's Cycles GPU engine is a great way to 'sell' their free software. Mantra is recognized as a powerful engine, Zbrush own render engine has a lot of functionality, Poser has Superfly engine, and yet all of them have 3rd party render engines to fill the needs of everyone (Octane / Redshift / Arnold / Furryball / Renderman / Cycles / Keyshot / etc).

 

The fact that some users wont need it because they already have a 3rd party engine, doesnt meant It isnt a great update. We could get Bifrost and Im pretty sure some users wont ever need it, or we can get Maya's nparticles and hopefully I wont be complaining about it because I already have x-particles.

 

You know what is a great update? One that doesn't fill the software with bugs. How many versions has Modo up to this point? 10? 11? Has it ever launched a new version without bugs? Does Maya / 3dsmax fix theirs? One would think after 10+ years they will know how to stop their apps from crashing, right? I mean, it took almost a year and three extensions for Autodesk to fix their own 2017 update, and still has weird issues. Is that what we want?

 

P.s. I use Cinema 4D Takes all the time... pretty strange, because that update sucked, right?

I agree with you as I'm not a guy who does comments or critics free of charge but more like constructive critics andI was just pointing some facts. Yet I'm still using C4D studio that I pay every year (I started from R11 as a hobbyist).

Like every past years in this forum, I used to write that the update will make some of us happy and some of us unhappy or more frustrated... and I was confident that MAXON is working hard on different things (oh here we go again, priorities lol ).

With regards to Take system, hell yeah it was a very good move (instead of writing 5 billions files for this or that render pass etc...), but is this great feature was enough to sell a full version fully priced or a good Rxx.5 version? I let everyone think of it with their own opinion.

So we'll see what good surprises will come this time with R19 (as I doubt it will be a R18.5) even if there is only 1 good feature (just pure speculation here and seriously I strongly do hope I'm super wrong).

Will I still purchase my MSA, this time and for the very first time, it will really depend on my budget and on the features proposed. (Just saying/writing that, I barely recognize myself oops).

Do not misunderstand my point here, I do like C4D for what I'm doing and for my client needs, but I'm primarily a VFX Compositor (in another term a Nuke guy) and paying all I have to pay has a cost at the end of the day...

IMHO, once again, some people will like the coming update, some not. It depends your needs, but hey we are all here in this great forum, sharing the same software, having our own differences  and opinions but we are all part of a great community helping each others and sometimes arguing friendly about this or that. This last point at least makes me feel good and modestly feels part of something.

 

 

Cheers

Regis

 

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2 hours ago, virtualzapp said:

With regards to Take system, hell yeah it was a very good move (instead of writing 5 billions files for this or that render pass etc...), but is this great feature was enough to sell a full version fully priced or a good Rxx.5 version?

To me it was. Right after we got it at my full-time job, I started work on a project where having Takes saved me at least 50% of the time it would have taken to get that job done. And that was a really big job that took months. I was so happy with that release for the Takes alone. There were other useful things in that release too, by the way, but Takes made the biggest difference for me.

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Amen to @Rectro and @virtualzapp. I also like the Takes system.

@luchifer "The fact that some users wont need it because they already have a 3rd party engine, doesnt meant It isnt a great update."

I can agree to that, but I hope it's not the major next big thing in R19. Didn't MAXON promise something for R18.5, which I never saw so far, or did I miss it? So, let's wait and see....

 

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They made a "politician's promise" that we'd see some type of substantial update between R18 and R19 but that never happened. They'll probably use it as justification why they can never share information with customers again. heheh

"See look! We promised something but didn't deliver then there was disappointment. From now on, you will endure the veil of secrecy until each new SIGGRAPH session!" :)

 

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18 hours ago, Zmotive said:

They made a "politician's promise" that we'd see some type of substantial update between R18 and R19 but that never happened. They'll probably use it as justification why they can never share information with customers again. heheh

"See look! We promised something but didn't deliver then there was disappointment. From now on, you will endure the veil of secrecy until each new SIGGRAPH session!" :)

 

Hmmm..i´m not so sure!

They said: "While the progress has been great, we aren’t quite satisfied yet. In an effort to make sure this major change to BodyPaint 3D meets our standard of quality we won’t be delivering this as part of Release 18, but you can look forward to getting it in your hands within the R18 product cycle"

We are in the R18 cycle and you can get your hands on the Bodypaint Beta Version...so to me that promise is fullfilled!!

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Id rather MAXON release Bodypaint when its done, iv had years of half baked features with other software, its much worse than not having it at all.  As long as they honor r18 users that when its ready all r18 users and above get the free update, then Im good with that.

Stability and commercially ready features out the box holds allot of value to me.

Dan

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50 minutes ago, Rectro said:

Id rather MAXON release Bodypaint when its done, iv had years of half baked features with other software, its much worse than not having it at all.  As long as they honor r18 users that when its ready all r18 users and above get the free update, then Im good with that.

Stability and commercially ready features out the box holds allot of value to me.

Dan

Yeah, I'm itching for new UV tools but I had a full year of modo sitting on the shelf during the 802 release - it would crash on me easily 3 or 4 times a day. Finally I abandoned it. That's the worst case scenario.

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2 hours ago, arail said:

Yeah, I'm itching for new UV tools but I had a full year of modo sitting on the shelf during the 802 release - it would crash on me easily 3 or 4 times a day. Finally I abandoned it. That's the worst case scenario.

Modo is a lot more stable now.

My guess is updated UV tools are 1 year away at best case scenario.  Don't expect much in R19 apart from a token gesture minor enhancement that they are working on the UV tools. Updated UV tools could likely be tied into the new core so you won't get one without the other.

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9 hours ago, nightlight said:

Hmmm..i´m not so sure!

They said: "While the progress has been great, we aren’t quite satisfied yet. In an effort to make sure this major change to BodyPaint 3D meets our standard of quality we won’t be delivering this as part of Release 18, but you can look forward to getting it in your hands within the R18 product cycle"

We are in the R18 cycle and you can get your hands on the Bodypaint Beta Version...so to me that promise is fullfilled!!

 

Ah yes, let the hair splitting begin. I disagree in the sense that they haven't delivered anything other than a beta, something that is not production-ready. When they say "not... satisfied yet... make sure major change...meets our standard of quality" they're talking about not wanting to release something until it's production ready.

So unless they have a note somewhere with the beta that says it's safe to use for production, most people would consider this a missed deadline. UNLESS, they offer it in a final version between now and R19. Always possible but unlikely IMO.

More likely: final version with R19, some variant of Pro Render with R19... and hopefully a lot more that people have been asking for. :)

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