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lopakam    40

Finished my last project so I'm back to practicing.  This was rendered in Corona.  Everything was modeled by me except for the trees outside which are from Laubwerk.  Everything is a procedural material except the lower stone wall.  Will soon add the indoor plants.  A lot of the shaders still need work (like the garbage can and the moss on the stones.)  Of course, any opinions are greatly appreciated.  Finally, I could use some ideas of what to put in there besides the plants.  Might put in a garden hose next.

Mark

 

GreenHouseV8R2

 

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Cerbera    1,211

I like the general feel of this, but it's not passing any 'spot the noise' tests for me at the moment :) Especially on the floor, but elsewhere too the dirt looks like sort of low res smudges with not enough detail or variation in them. The window frames at the end are suffering worst from this. So whereas you may be using one noise type of quite low octaves, try a layer shader with at least 4 different types at different scales, and with lots of octave detail and attention to delta to make sure you are getting nice detailed roughwork.

 

And you may want to consider a displacement based texture for the mossy walls - we can tell too easily on the right hand side that this is totally flat.

 

Oh, has the greenhouse glass got any physical thickness to it ? I'm not sure I'm expecting the wall bricks to warp like that when viewed through it...

 

Other than that, looking good so far ! :) 

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lopakam    40
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  • 1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

    I like the general feel of this, but it's not passing any 'spot the noise' tests for me at the moment :) Especially on the floor, but elsewhere too the dirt looks like sort of low res smudges with not enough detail or variation in them. The window frames at the end are suffering worst from this. So whereas you may be using one noise type of quite low octaves, try a layer shader with at least 4 different types at different scales, and with lots of octave detail and attention to delta to make sure you are getting nice detailed roughwork.

     

    And you may want to consider a displacement based texture for the mossy walls - we can tell too easily on the right hand side that this is totally flat.

     

    Oh, has the greenhouse glass got any physical thickness to it ? I'm not sure I'm expecting the wall bricks to warp like that when viewed through it...

     

    Other than that, looking good so far ! :) 

    Wow, you sure know your stuff!  You are right, there is no displacement on the moss.  I had it on an earlier version, but changed the material on the wall and forgot to add displacement.  Very impressive observation!  I also like what you are saying about multiple dirt layers.  I tried to add complexity with the one layer, but this was a lot of work and did not do what I had hoped for.  Multiple layers would be easier and look better.

     

    Thanks!

    Mark

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    lopakam    40
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  • Here is the (close to) final version.  The interior plants are from Xfrog, but I had to create new materials to render it in Corona.  That was tedious work!  I reworked some of the shaders as Cerbera had suggested and I am happy with the results.  Again, thank you!

    Mark

    GreenHouseV11R2

     

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    Cerbera    1,211

    Getting better all the time...

     

    Now I'm worried about contrast and busyness. :) 

     

    I like high contrast scenes on the whole, and generally speaking they are better and more impactive / impressive for the viewer. But here, it's working against you a little bit - it's a little too harsh, and exactly the same over the whole image, which confuses the eye, and leads to it not flowing across the scene. You may or may not care about such things, but you could fix it either in post, or with additional 'bounce' lighting if you felt so inclined... I see you've left the sunlight almost blowing out in certain areas, which I assume was to try and get the strong sunlight feel, but it's a slightly wanton eye distraction to have front center in an image.  I suspect you could solve a lot of it by putting some clouds in the sky to diffuse and soften that sunlight. I'd be tempted to not overexpose it all in Cinema, but resolve to add a softer and more aesthetically subtle exposure / glow in post.

     

    Busyness is another thing that distracts the eye, and there's a lot to look at here ! I wonder if it wouldn't be more effective if there was less - small focused groups of objects that draw the eye and hold the attention, rather than 100's of things of equal contrast and and complexity all screaming 'look at me' ! :) If you did want to keep all those things, you could try and direct the eye a bit more with some subtle depth of field, which will help isolate focus, add to perceived depth and increase variation across the image, all to good effect I would have thought.

     

    Lastly, do you think your bricks are a little too saturated ? Old rough brickwork like this is sometimes much greyer than you'd think, even in bright sun, and I just feel it's a little overpowering at the moment...

     

    Obviously I am being 'maximum picky' here, and if you disagree with me, of course feel free to disregard any or all of my late-night ramblings :)

     

    CBR

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    lopakam    40
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  • 14 hours ago, Cerbera said:

    Getting better all the time...

     

    Now I'm worried about contrast and busyness. :) 

     

    I like high contrast scenes on the whole, and generally speaking they are better and more impactive / impressive for the viewer. But here, it's working against you a little bit - it's a little too harsh, and exactly the same over the whole image, which confuses the eye, and leads to it not flowing across the scene. You may or may not care about such things, but you could fix it either in post, or with additional 'bounce' lighting if you felt so inclined... I see you've left the sunlight almost blowing out in certain areas, which I assume was to try and get the strong sunlight feel, but it's a slightly wanton eye distraction to have front center in an image.  I suspect you could solve a lot of it by putting some clouds in the sky to diffuse and soften that sunlight. I'd be tempted to not overexpose it all in Cinema, but resolve to add a softer and more aesthetically subtle exposure / glow in post.

     

    Busyness is another thing that distracts the eye, and there's a lot to look at here ! I wonder if it wouldn't be more effective if there was less - small focused groups of objects that draw the eye and hold the attention, rather than 100's of things of equal contrast and and complexity all screaming 'look at me' ! :) If you did want to keep all those things, you could try and direct the eye a bit more with some subtle depth of field, which will help isolate focus, add to perceived depth and increase variation across the image, all to good effect I would have thought.

     

    Lastly, do you think your bricks are a little too saturated ? Old rough brickwork like this is sometimes much greyer than you'd think, even in bright sun, and I just feel it's a little overpowering at the moment...

     

    Obviously I am being 'maximum picky' here, and if you disagree with me, of course feel free to disregard any or all of my late-night ramblings :)

     

    CBR

    CBR, thank you again for taking the time to post a detail critique!

    The scene is busy, by design.  But looking at it again, you are right, it is too busy.  Going in, I had two goals:  1) was to make it timeless, and 2) was a busy scene.  I was hoping that the scene would look like it fit in England in 1917, or the American Midwest in 2017.  As far as the busyness, I have always been fascinated by paintings that have a lot going on.  I now realize that this is more difficult than just throwing objects in.  This became painfully apparent as I was modeling this.  Every object needs to tell its own independent story, but fit within the overall story of the complete scene.  For example, one story is the cut flowers in the vase with sheers next to it.  So, having several stories in the scene would limit what I could use for DOF.  I looked at it as a photographer, and knew that I would probably be around 5.6, and that is what I used in the render. I would never shoot at f16 since very few lenses do well at this aperture, but some DOF was needed.  Too much would focus the viewer on one part, and not the other stories I was hoping to tell.  Also in photography, there is the rule of thirds; focusing the viewer on one of the intersections.  However, this would also defeat the purpose of telling several stories.  But again, you are spot on – it IS too busy.  So I looked at it again to try to find the balance of too busy, but a lot of detail.  It is possible that having too many types of plants is contributing to this.  

    Flow is an issue, again the challenge of creating a busy scene.  A while back when I was a VP of a fortune 500 company, I dealt with a lot of stress.  The way I relieved this stress was working on a model railroad.  I was able to create a world that I could mentally enter and make things the way I wanted.  I learned a lot about flow, and how the eyes follow things.  For example; I would strategically place a fence (or some other straight line) which kept the eyes form be distracted by a contrasting environment next to it.  Now, when I am in Cinema 4D creating my own work, I am again able to create worlds that I could enter and escape the pressures of work.  I should have applied what I learned from my model railroad days to this scene.

    Contrast was high by design.  I was hoping for a clear fall day with harsh lighting.  But this has led to some blowouts.  For example; the white orchid on the right is distracting.  One thing 3D gives me over photography is I could actually change the intensity, color, and/or reflection of a material.  Furthermore, this image is raw, straight from C4D.  The final version will do well with some PP in Photoshop.  Once again, you have made a great observation.

    Finally the bricks.  At first I did not give much thought to this, but like in any photograph, it is often what you do not focus on that makes or breaks the image.  Reducing the color intensity on the bricks could make a huge difference in the overall feel.

    CBR, you are obviously a talented artist.  I am an engineer.  Photography was my hobby to become less mathematical in life and more creative.  3D is now my new canvas of choice.  I have learned so much about 3D modeling over the past three years of Cinema 4D, and posts like yours have helped a lot.

    While I will never have the vision of someone of your talents, it is something I will continue to work on as time moves forward.

    Thank you so much for your detailed posts, it is greatly appreciated!

    Mark

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    Cerbera    1,211

    It's always a pleasure to try and help you - I am impressed by the way you think about things like backstory and the reasons for things being where they are - there really aren't enough people doing that in their rendering, and I am reminded of it on a daily basis every time I see another chrome sphere in a desert :) Damn those everyday's for encouraging people to rush stuff, and get it out any old how, with only the briefest of thought or consideration for any one aspect...

     

    No, I am much more rewarded and impressed by people like you that are willing to spend a long time reviewing and revising an image until you are totally happy with it yourself, and proud to show it to anyone else because you really took that time to do it well. Keep going my friend, you're winning a long way before you get to the end ! ;)

     

    CBR

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    lopakam    40
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  • Time to move on from this one and try to figure out R19.  Here is the final version.  Sometimes things are finished only when you stop.  I tried to make it less busy by increasing the DOF slightly to f4 and focusing on the cut flowers in the vase.  I also recomposed it by adding more of the roof to help deemphasize the busyness of the flowers.  I added a broken flowerpot as another sub-story, worked on the window in the background building, decreased the saturation on the bricks, adjusted some of the shaders on some flowers, and added some detail to the glass roof.  Finally, a little PP in Photoshop.

     

    Although I'm busy at my real job right now, I do not have any side projects projects comping up.  So I have to come up with another idea for a personal project.

     

    Mark

    GreenHouseV14R1d

     

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    Cerbera    1,211

    Definitely looking better ! It's pleasing to look around now, and I can enjoy all the little details... bricks and shadows particularly - much better now.

    You're right - stuff is never finished; only left at the point we ran out of time or inclination :)

     

    CBR

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    Anthony Owen    21

    It corrects the one thing that broke it for me, the apparent geometry of the wall is now vertical.  What adjustment did you make to get the correct view?

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    lopakam    40
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  • 4 minutes ago, Anthony Owen said:

    It corrects the one thing that broke it for me, the apparent geometry of the wall is now vertical.  What adjustment did you make to get the correct view?

    Ya, that drove me nuts for a while.  In Corona, I created the glass using the Refraction setting with the default settings (and then added Reflection.)  Under the Refraction settings, there is a checkbox that gives you an option 'Thin  (no refraction)'.  I find it odd that you need refraction for glass, but then select no refraction (wait, what?!)  But reading somewhere I saw that this needed to be checked for architectural glass.  One click and problem resolved!

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    Hi Lopakam,

    this is starting to look way better!  ;-)

    IMHO I would do a little tryout with positioning th sunlight.

    for example, if you place the sunlicht more to the rich and back, you get a more interesting render.

    if you don't mind i did a quick one on my laptop (perspective is way off, but you get the idea)

    one is more or less the wa you have the sun setup, the other one is more back-lit. 
    this makes a better contrast in the image and brings out the tables even more


    kind regards
    Menno

    lightstudy_2.jpg

    base_setup.jpg

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