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Showing content with the highest reputation on 08/02/2019 in all areas

  1. First time post on a forum but felt the need to. Happy user since R10 Studio with investment in most plug-ins for the software. (Over $20,000 NZ Dollars spent in that time.) Just a hobbyist with no income earned. (My choice). Was excited and looking forward to the "exciting / industry- changing news , and got up at 4.15 AM on a cold mid-winter morning to see that MAXON had lost its heart and soul and gone done the road of so many other corporates,only interested in money. The presentation was amateurish ..(didnt even start on time )..... and it didnt get better for those of us with a long ter
    10 points
  2. Hi first post here Only a hobby user but joined because I want to join the discussion of the subscription bad new from MAXON. Anyway I actually have the Studio version since R16/17 with MSA. Haven't had the time to use Cinema as much as I wanted. I really don't buy the argument about people with restricted budgets now having the possibility to join Cinema because they can rent the software. First of all they could already get most of their needs covered in the more restricted versions and with a perpetual license. Second newcommers are actually allowed
    6 points
  3. At the moment the MAXON US Shop is showing upgrades from R19 to R20 at $995, on their UK shop there is no upgrades available at all. The $999 price you been quoted I would check again, ask if that,s set by management, or a rough estimate. If indeed that is correct then ask them why isn't this on the site, and why hasn't this been announced officially? Delaying this info can only do more harm and fuel the negativity and fear for current Perpetual owners. MAXON needs to get this communication sorted pronto without further delay, this is only causing speculation which I quite under
    5 points
  4. It feels shocking to those that have supported MAXON to have been told “yea you know that thing you bought from us for £3500?...the thing we told you there’s an upgrade and support path for and you are able to sell or keep forever?” -yes the thing I pay for the new version of every year- ”well we have changed our minds you can’t have it now” -well give me my money back- ”no you can’t we spent it on setting up a different way to make money” -but we had an understanding this will be ongoing- ”shut up about that, stop moaning....oh as a way of thanking you suppo
    4 points
  5. Also something I've been reading around the web is that the $60/month deal (annual subscription) isn't charged once per month. It's charged all at one time. So if you want the deal you still need to fork over $720 + tax immediately. If true, this isn't what is being presented. To use the car analogy, it's like saying your new car only costs $300/month but demanding the full $35,000 before you can drive it away.
    4 points
  6. You might feel better thinking it shocks them. I don't believe they're even bothered.
    3 points
  7. Interesting that for the last couple of pages in this thread, the major theme has been "so exactly what my options if I want to stay perpetual?" Amidst all that confusion, there have been NO posts from any MAXON employee. We have not even heard from those employee's who run the forum (Igor last posted over 140 messages ago). Maybe they are waiting for us to pass through the "storming" phase of change and calm down and enter the "norming" or acceptance phase of change before they show themselves again. After all, we have more in common with an angry mob this week than the once
    3 points
  8. odd. MAXON UK for instance stated that they don't have official upgrade prices yet. tbh it's a mystery to me why that wasn't figured out and communiucated upfront.
    3 points
  9. Unfortunately this is true. It's on MAXON website: "Billed Annually". That's why I said in this thread that MAXON's advertising is disingenuous. There is no such a thing as a monthly U$59.99 subscription. There is only a U$720 annual sub and a U$94.99 monthly sub.
    3 points
  10. Dave, MAXON isn't going to change their minds on this. This is the whole Adobe-forced-subscription saga...another chapter. No human appeals will work...as there is an absence of humanity at the top. As for loss of trust and respect...yes total. As for a puncturing of enthusiasm for the product, yup. It's gone.
    2 points
  11. mmm, I don't agree. Things changed. While Brad and co were great at interacting with the user base, development was all over the place. Stability has improved a lot in the last few versions and there now seems to be logical way forward / clear roadmap. The procedural modelling is really useful and something I use all the time now. Obviously I've been watching this thread with interest. I always thought there were too many versions of Cinema 4D so consolidating into one version I totally agree with. My guess is MAXON fully expect to lose a few customers but that will be offset by making i
    2 points
  12. I see the Cafe made it to XKCD
    2 points
  13. Subscribers dont have to fork out over 3k in advance to get their hands on C4D. I dont like the subscription thing myself unless its a short term thing which is what they had in place already. Rent to own sits with me better. Dan
    2 points
  14. Because they came completely unprepared. The whole presentation was very amateurish. Almost a case study on bad marketing/PR. Prices should have been worked out in every region prior to the announcement (still no idea if VAT is included or not...) Same for conversion offers: emails should have been sent to all of us right after the presentation to let us know what our personal options were instead of having to figure this out on our own by calling distributors or browsing forums. Very clumsy also to kick off the presentation with pricing and then show R21’
    2 points
  15. Which people in the world are being prevented from subscribing if they want to? Not too many that I've noticed. I remember a lot of these profanity laden comments of your from back when you were irate at Adobe bringing in subscriptions, where you asked users if they were okay being Adobe's 'bitch', and stuff like that. I've got to tell you, that relationship is a consensual one, and very satisfying. It's going to be cheaper for a great many people. Lots and lots of people. All the people - in particular - who couldn't afford Studio before but can n
    2 points
  16. Hello, you all! ... Noises are not easy to understand at first sight. Al least, no for me. I needed to train that. I've done hundreds of exercices and now I think I can speak maybe a little of this noisy language, voices of an infinite world. After some work, nothing was the same, again. Noises are 3D artists best friends for modeling, for texture, for animating, for every level, even for pleasure - I can watch them for hours. I've learned for free and for hours, for years, in this chair. Watching videos in youtube, in cineversity, in vimeo. Now I want to share my workbook
    1 point
  17. As you noted several pages ago, we've been busy with Siggraph. Though not dealing with upset customers - quite the contrary. The customers we spoke with at the show (both existing customers and soon-to-be-customers) are very excited about the new options that are going to offer many more folks an opportunity to join the amazing Cinema 4D community. And despite the tone of some posts here, I do still believe this is the best community around any piece of software - so many folks willing to share their techniques and their time - including the 20+ presenters that you saw on C4DLive and many othe
    1 point
  18. Lol I thought they were going to have a big 'NO wrong section' at the end.
    1 point
  19. It's the small pro users who will take the hit here - and I'm one of them. The big studios tend to like these schemes - here's why: Renting (subscribing) moves the expenditure from Capital expenditure - difficult to get financial approval for, requires long term planning, hard to measure return on investment etc - into Operational expenditure - easier to get approval for, easier to measure return on investment etc . Imagine you're a studio head at a agency and you want to move 50 artists onto C4D. Currently that's 50 x $3.5k = $175K investment. That is hard to get approv
    1 point
  20. Yes, it's very different. Not even close. I don't need to open my old phone calls (I don't think I would even want to!).
    1 point
  21. Hi C4DS, Thanks for your great plugins and sorry to hear that. Completely understandable given the circumstances. I'll be on R20 for awhile and I'm sure your plugins will be very handy, especially Seamilar. Mike
    1 point
  22. No that's excellent that they can't post it there any more - I used to have to spend a significant amount of my days (and nights) moving posts to where they should be from that damn section. Finally we have killed that category, and I hope it stays dead forever ! :) And people who make cartoons should wait until forum updates are finished !! ;) CBR
    1 point
  23. Nope - that about sums it up. Read their FAQ again - it's all corporate double speak. The translation is: You are all now renters. Paying monthly doesn't really mean monthly - it actually means paying a full annual fee. The best deal you get is an annual renter fee of $720 - if you stop paying you can't open your old jobs (and you can't do anything about it because it says it in the fine print you agreed to). If our server has a hiccup, not our problem (read the fine print again). We're breaking every single one of your plugins too - deal with it. We'r
    1 point
  24. A re-working of this https://www.xkcd.com/1513/
    1 point
  25. Exactly. That´s what Subscription is in short terms. And Additionaly: With Perpetual you are also able to sell your License (which is forgotten in so many math, which is made about Subscription Costs)
    1 point
  26. 1 point
  27. They are not adobe so I doubt your shares will do as well, adobe have (for now) a monopoly on creative tools that Joe Public can understand and learn, c4d although being easiest to learn is not so accessible and more niche....wouldn’t be surprised to see some software in the not to distant future that uses AI to make it mass market...it will probably be bought by adobe lol
    1 point
  28. Well, the affordable subscription price that they advertise is actually one year at the minimum (and paid annually, not monthly). And people who couldn't afford studio before are probably not that interested in renting short term. The reality is that all the most affordable (Prime, Broadcast, visualise) options of C4D are gone. Scrapped. I was very happy paying 285 a year for my MSA for Broadcast since I'm mostly a hobbyist user and only occasionally use C4D in my professional work (and then I have more than enough with Broadcast's feature set) Yes it seems like I will get a good offer for t
    1 point
  29. Perhaps, looking at Adobe's stock price development since CC, it would be a good idea for everyone to buy Nemetschek shares as a way to generate an extra discount ;) (I wish I put all my savings into Adobe stock 5 years ago (5x increase in value in 5 years!)
    1 point
  30. You still need to fork out 3000€ upfront for a license...this might deter a few new customers.
    1 point
  31. This is the upgrade price when you don’t have an MSA. Once MSA’s are gone there is no reason why they would crank up the price like that...unless they want all of us to move to subs. Hope I’m right...:(
    1 point
  32. again. nobody knows yet what the upgrade prices for perpetual will be. if they are higher than current msa, that indeed would suck. but we don‘t know yet.
    1 point
  33. Actually they are. They are advertising as $59.99 MONTHLY and it is not MONTHLY. Period. This type of false advertising is actually illegal in some countries. The annual $720 price is not bad, it's actually a good deal. But do not advertise as $59.99 monthly when it's not that.
    1 point
  34. Yes they are. -The announcements leading up to the show were a steaming pile of horse sh.. "For the whole world.." -They have hiked their prices for existing customers, but claiming (lying) that it is cheaper. And you ultimately own nothing while paying more! - By definition a monthly payment is a monthly payment, not an annual payment. True monthly payments are around $95 a pop.
    1 point
  35. That is true! I never considered that. Well....I was upset before and that realization did not help. Honestly, MAXON better have a UNIQUE AND SIGNIFICANT discount just for Studio owners. Give me a $470 discount on a perpetual license of Redshift that I can load on R20 seems appropriate and I might think about doing something (subscription or perpetual) after my MSA runs out at the end of the month. Think about this recipe: Push out a pretty mediocre release that makes even R17 look great. Offer MSA holders of Prime the same perpetual license to R21 at 1
    1 point
  36. Are the forks entirely different .exe/versions of the code? Or is it where modules get swapped out? I'm not familiar with "forks" relative to Blender. Edit: ah...I see it's a completely different executable based on open source core. Yikes. So third party renders must seriously go the extra mile.
    1 point
  37. Ach, this is Creative Cloud all over again. A year or two of perpetual, probably forcing up the price to frogmarch us to the pay monthly, end up owning nothing business model. The plaintive cries I'm hearing are kind of the same as far as I remember with Creative Cloud (and I'd be surprised if they are wrong) but I'm guessing those unhappy voices have been weighed in terms of profit/loss and decided already. CC at work, CS6 at home for me (I'll never rent software that I'll never own), didn't think I'd end up hating MAXON as much as I do Adobe, but I guess we'll see. Hurrah for the shareh
    1 point
  38. Well, speaking for all those wage slaves who have never owned a copy of Cinema, I think this is a great move. C4D is paid for out of the operating budget of the studio I work in, and the different packages and the MSA have been a total ballache to deal with. Management everywhere have this issue with the difference between capex cost and opex costs - while they will think nothing of paying for something monthly, they will baulk at the idea of spending lump sums of any magnitude. I was looking at sharing one R21 licence with two people, and two R19 licences floating about. Now we ca
    1 point
  39. Because that's what is gonna happen. The perpetual license (which is not perpetual anymore, with the every 14-day activation thing) will be gone in one or two years. That's what happened with both Adobe's and Autodesk's perpetual licenses. And we have a former Adobe guy as MAXON CEO. Just do the math.
    1 point
  40. In the past this was always an exciting week. Hear about C4D's new features, lots of discussion on the forums (good and bad), and watching the presentations of the show. This time around, I have not watched a single presentation and have absolutely no interest in doing so. There are many companies that offer software subscriptions in a much more user-friendly way. The Adobe way just feels immoral.
    1 point
  41. Wow....so even if I decide to buy a perpetual R21 license, that license is ONLY perpetual if I continually upgrade via new perpetual licenses. Once I switch to subscription, my perpetual license fails to activate. That is just wrong. Also, I think someone said that the cost of the R21 perpetual license was 850 euro which is 15% more than the annual subscription price. So my fears are realized: there is a strong push to perpetual and R20 is the last truly permanent license you can own whose activation can never be tampered with by MAXON as it does not use their server activati
    1 point
  42. I will never understand this logic. If you can´t spend 3.5K for a perpetual license - Spare 70.00 a month and buy when you are completed. Or take a credit and pay back month by month - But OWN your license in the end. If you are able to pay the monthly fee, you should also be able to pay back the credit. I realy can´t understand why so many people are of the opinion "now (with subscription and dependence) they are able to use these tools they elsewise could never have". Subscription is nearby the same as taking credit - with the disadvantage that you loose the access to your work if you are un
    1 point
  43. Another HUGE factor is the lighting. Yours isn't backlit at all.
    1 point
  44. @SolarPH can I suggest you don't use rel, abs and for as variable names.
    1 point
  45. If there's one video I can make which will save you more time working than it takes to watch, it's a video about takes. So here's a video about takes.
    1 point
  46. As mentioned in my latest blog entry I am done with plugin development: https://www.c4dcafe.com/ipb/blogs/entry/601-the-post-r21-announcement-depression/ For those who will stay with their R16, R17, R18, R19 or R20, I am providing 50% off on my current plugins available at https://toolspixels.be/plugins/ And this for the next few days ... till the shop shuts down. Make sure to understand these plugins will not be updated to work with R21. Additionally, I cannot guarantee any of these plugins will ever see a future update. Thanks. EDIT: Deal has
    0 points

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