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Raischub

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Raischub last won the day on August 14

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About Raischub

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    Cafe Ronin

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  • First Name
    Rai
  • Last Name
    Schub
  • C4D Version
    20.059 Studio
  • Location
    Germany

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  1. Taken from the textbook for the modern manager. Do not say anything concrete but show yourself in a good light. Many people here are upset. And they earn a living with this software. I think they want to hear concrete things. As nice as that sounds - meeting to beer - it ignores that people here are seriously worried. I do not want to accuse it to you, but the company you once worked for is also known for ignorance, when it comes to "listen to the users". And I think MAXON should not be too sure if drinking is the right thing to do at the moment.
  2. In my experience, the subscription model is rather liked by 5%. The rest endures it or keeps hands off. The merchants of big agencies love it, of course, and those who could not afford the software with the purchase model. So rather hobbyists or users in the small budget area.
  3. Oh man, I can well imagine what has happened to you, dear MAXON developers. Here comes a new boss with "really great" news. We do everything differently now ... better ... faster ... online ... "Let´s do it Adobe.style ... cloudy ...!" Stomach aches will have set in. "But that's already great ..." you'll have thought ... "That's not a bit better ..." and so on. I know how loyal and helpful you have been in all these last years. And now you have to happily introduce a subscription model (you know what most users think of). Had to waste so many resources on things you did not even believe in. Oh yes, that can hurt. But the worst thing I can imagine is, if you have to sell that as a great news & advantage. Oh yes, I can imagine ... The look in the mirror ...
  4. Not a question. The former Cinema Help was unbeatable. Industry leading. No need for optimization in any way. As some have already written: Who likes help systems ala Adobe? Ever looked there for a solution? And found it? My experience is that googling is the much, much faster way here. I've been so annoyed with this online cr*p so many times. (And wished me back the old - excellent - preCloud manuals, yes, paper-manuals) Hours spent without coming even close to a solution. It is practically the opposite of Cinemas help system. (Or: Nobody likes Adobes horrible online help maze) If I have a problem with a feature, then I usually do not have time to torment myself through any forum (especially community forums with their half-knowledge expertise) or watch videos I do not know from the start if they even show the solution of my problem. What made Cinemas help so unique was that you got the explanation for functions and parameters without any delay. That's exactly what I need. And it was hardly ever necessary to seek help beyond that. Hats off to those who have worked it out. So - why destroy something that works so well? (Because the new boss knows that from Adobe, because sooner or later you have to integrate it with Adobe?) I have nothing against a button to additional (online) learning and tutorial videos or how-to instructions that can be of great use to beginners. But these too could be integrated in the help (as it was). Alone, the fact that I have to jump from the browser to the program bothers me already. Quite apart from the need for an online connection, which in many cases I simply sometimes do not have or may not have. Bottom line: No, even a dockable online help does not have the same benefit for me. The integration of videos and community features usually makes things more confusing (and also costs valuable time if the content has to be loaded first). I do not put the slightest value on it (in addition to that its OK for me and maybe online just like Cinevercity). I can use when I find the time. A constant update is not necessary in my opinion. When the functions come out they should be available. Finished. (Most time, Marketing guys are talking about "faster updated" "more secure" "need for online" - it´s not to our satisfaction) Where was the problem in the past? BtW: The removal of and transition to online help took MAXON that much time that new features became that rare in V21? Integration of Online Activation and Subscription took that many ressources - both time and money? Should we really spend (more) money for the "advantages" of a smaller help system, online activation, rental force, loose of MSA, Treatment of longtime Studio-Users, smaller Updates? The list of Advatages of Version 21 is long - for MAXON.
  5. I would give you 10 likes for your posts, but the rules here tell me, that I can´t. I´m limited. The answer given by Mr Mc Graven was simply nothing than... "trust into Marketing blah-blah. I´m here. Love me. I will do nothing. Believe me or (better) not.
  6. You took the words right out of my mouth...
  7. It's really hard to stay calm and nice at this point. The ORIGINAL MAXON was (!) one of my favorite programs - not only because I felt it was being looked after by a fair crew. Now I have to watch how one feature after another is removed. In addition, the marketing department tells what all this brings great benefits. This all reminds me of Adobe. A real Dejavu. And? Did they, Adobe, listen to what their customers want, want, need? Ask yourself. No. They didn´t. Loosing trust wasn´t anything they were impressed by. Online Activation, Rental & Account Coercion, Broken Plug Ins, Restricting Render Notes, Cinevercity Removal ... The list could go further. And now also the omission of the help system (which obviously was not maintained in the recent past). I do not think you'll really listen to, NEW MAXON. The NEW MAXON is in completely different waters - Since it is trying with all their might to introduce the rental model and make money. What comes out of it - you see at Adobe only too well. Perfect programs - old and optimized. Hardly a possibility of optimization if you do not integrate fully covered functions that hardly a human needs. It will be hard for updates. Clear. I think there is hardly a problem that I could not solve with CS6 as well as with this cloud shi*. I do not mind that you make money. And I have always liked to pay for it - since you existed. And would have done in the future. But the rental model is a very one-sided knitted thing. The advantage lies entirely with you. It serves to take away our freedom. It binds us. No - quite honestly - I do not trust your new company management. And if your boss is still so jovial. I do not feel like I'm still talking to the same company. No longer believe that I am heard (as in the past). I do not think you will deviate a millimeter from your course. If marketing fools have decided something, it's done in stone. I know, it does not come from below - it comes from above. And I'm sorry for you employees. I feel like you have to follow the lead on bending and breaking. All this must sound horrible for those who have made the ORIGINAL MAXON great. And I do not write "against you" - I am against what the new leadership from your company wants to do and will do. In front of you - the employees - I have the highest respect. Realy. Please understand and do not feel attacked. As we are. Thank you for the support for decades. But now it will be time to go another way. I am extremely annoyed that large amounts of money (plugins & models & additional workflow) and time spend with learning lose their value.
  8. Hell? With all this V21 is not an Upgrade - it´s an Downgrade. I've named the Cinema Help System in so many forums as an example of how to do that job - and now ??? The Offline Help-System was one of the most usefull tools in Cinema. And an USP for me. I have the feeling that the NEW MAXON tries to get rid of its users by force. I can hardly believe it. (I have - security reasons - to work offline much of my time & I even don´t like a need of being online. Offline also faster) The next step on the way to the Adobe world, um cloud? (AE Bridge | Software rental | CEO (which is Adobe) | Mixamo (which is Adobe) | Substance (which is Adobe)) Will everything be the same as with Adobe? Is the online "help system" of Adobe now also the model for NEW MAXON? Have you ever solved a problem there? Do we have to torment ourselves in the future through a "Help Community" or massively watch tutorial videos without finding anything in the end - as with Adobe? Sparing R&D money at NEW MAXON? (Already as an next step/copy to the Adobe Universe?) No matter what users want or need? NEW MAXON should not only list the rare new features, but also all the features that have been eliminated or deteriorated (online forced | rental forced | no offline help | ....) I have to control myself not to fail here. MAXON was once a great company. I do not like to write that because I know how great the employees in the past have acted, responded and helped (thank´s a lot). But Adobes/Renting greed makes the software industry just cold and heartless. Welcome NEW MAXON NEW MAXON - As long as you are not under the hood of Adobe: You are NOT a monoploist as they are! But honestly, I can not explain the behavior any more than ...- I bet my a** that MAXON will soon be found in the cloud. PS.: Will Perpetual V21 loose it´s "help-system" when MAXON decides to no longer support it? Will the "help system" be available in different languages in the future? Even wonder if I should install the V21 Upgrade I´ve payed for...
  9. Thats the way it is. Think, theres no chance for us, to stop the train. Art from these days. Yes. And therefore everything said here. (As long as evlish plans of Subscription Companies are honored by users, as long as getting your files locked is a trend, as long as people wanna rent instead of buy... These things will go on. No one will stop Maxons new stylish and modern talking CEO) Dot - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - Today, devils no longer have horns
  10. Speculation or not: what can I be sure about? Some of the statements I see myself or consider the developments likely. See it from my side. It is the job of MAXON to eliminate these doubts. As I said before, I know few (if not all) software manufacturers that have convinced me more in the past than MAXON. Every suggestion for improvement was taken seriously. Each question meticulously and (really) answered with much love. A big praise to the past - honestly. I have praised you, MAXON, in forums over and over again, as an example of how to do it. And would not I come to see that I am in a situation where my work (which I am passionately doing) would be in danger of becoming useless, one day I can not open my own data - my anger would not be there. Nothing against any of you - the people who designed and made MAXON big. But it's the same here as with Adobe: There is a course setting from above and the thing gets a new face. I loved the software from Adobe earlier. Especially Photoshop. Even though I never liked the company that much. Adobe was never comparable to MAXON. But from day to tomorrow, I did not even want to see their program logos popping up anymore. Subscription is like living on the nod for me. How to lease cars. Short thought. It does not make anything cheaper - it creates dependency and is therefore not fair (in my eyes). Who earns money with professional software, the acquisition cost of a few thousand €/$ are not a question. (even prices are absolutely not my concern) Subscription also wants to catch those who wish and are happy to have access at all. But at the same time it takes my safety. The security of being able to decide myself tomorrow (Upgrade or not? Change Software or not? ...). The certainty that I have paid for what I use. And the security of opening my customer files whenever I want. (Even in bad times, if they come) I have to invest in PlugIns - in the knowledge that i down´t own anything. If there is a better competition tomorrow I would have to pay both (if I want to use my old files). You are surely in the future, the human great team. But you have the misfortune to be in a company that is more and more oriented towards profit and efficiency. A train of time. But rarely in terms of users and quality. Adobe has more than proven where useful features end with that model. Even the stock market price has now reached the factor of 1000% since CC. Revenues have more than doubled (For those who believe renting is cheaper: with nearly the same number of registered licenses (125%) than before cash cow (CC) 2012). Believe me, I do not think the team changed at MAXON. Although I find it sad how the founders were removed. But I do not believe in the strategy behind the subscription model. Lastly: I will not rent software as long as there are alternatives. No matter if its MAXON or whatever. Having said all that, I see the time has come to replace a software I love very much. And all the plugins I bought and learned. Yes, really, it hurts me. Deeply. But again: Nothing against you - it's about the decision to make MAXON to what is now announced.
  11. OK. If I take the official explanations in the FAQ as a basis: There is no talk of a version 22 Perpetual. No promise. No guarantee. In other words, it remains nebulous. It's up to MAXON. At least MAXON does not want to guarantee that there is a version 22 Perpetual - it depends on how many users are going into a subscription's dependency, right? How many money MAXON will make till next year? And ... If I look at the parallels to Adobe: Of course there was never any talk of a sunset date. (Funny you named it the date of sunset - after sunset, darkness follows) OK: That's actually all I wanted to know (and I think many others). So thank you, too, for not answering one of my questions directly (a MAXON user since one can buy Cinema, I'm taking the cd with the panther.) I wrote that post before reading your last comment - so this edited Thank you.
  12. @Rick Maybe I can understand the Sound of Silence as an tip. Clearly you can´t talk against Companies dictates. So I take it like that. @SiXwork Maybe it´s interessting for you: I just find a comment about Cinemas new Subscription mode on the site of an GER-Software-Reseller. It´s " Software3d dot de" (No doubt if links are allowed here - exact source see bottom ). I hope they forgive me, if one of the MAXON Officials will read this here and they get trouble anyway - because the description they are giving about the new MAXON isn´t that good, when it comes to subscription. They doubt that there will be a future perpetual versions of Cinema (after Version 21). And beside that - they are also (like me ; ) of the opinion, that MAXON doesn´t fit into Nemetschecks Portfolio in the long run (They are mainly active in the field of Architecture & Construction). A takeover from Adobe isn´t that unlikely. The relations are build (not only by the CEO). Their blog-comment in cutouts tranlated by Google (with no corrections - I fear Googles English is better than mine ; "Cinema4D and Adobe? Maybe we can continue to speculate, what we had already suspected in 2013: in the end, CINEMA 4D not only fits well with Nemetschek, as a construction software specialist, but almost even better to Adobe. With the new CEO (ex-Adobe Manager), close relationships are foreseeable, and if Nemetschek pays off the profits, then another takeover may develop soon and the ring to enslave us will then be continued at Adobe." "Brief summary of the new subscription license model: - There is probably no longer a purchase version in the foreseeable future (our forecast, although currently still a R21 purchase license is offered) - There are then probably sooner or later only rental models like Adobe or Autodesk - and if you do not pay, you have nothing left in your hands - There are no more gradations between the favorable Prime or the specializations Broadcast, Visualize and Bodypaint but only all-or-nothing in the "Cinema4D - Always Online" (corresponds to the studio version) - All existing MSAs are or have already been terminated (service contracts were the precursor to customer loyalty) - Any existing MSA valid until at least September 2019 (no matter which version) will receive Cinema4D R21 (equivalent to Studio) as a permanent license" "In the first view, nothing can really be said against the model. For new users, the pricing policy is even very good and existing users are lured with price offers. Users who are in the MSA (service contract), it is already used to pay regularly get even in the best case from their small version (Prime, Broadcast or Visualize) a large studio with the new R21. Our fears are more that customer loyalty is so high that you can no longer decide freely later, and then either the prices will rise or the development of new features will slow down. As we see it with other products, it is economically logical and most of our customers can do nothing with constantly new features from the studio version." "Fact is current: Cinema4D is and remains an awesome 3D visualization program and has a strong user base. The pricing model is very good for new customers, but we see more of the economic goals and that is exactly what MAXON could hide so far. We may see in a few years whether the program's creative DNA will suffer." "CINEMA 4D - RENT OR BUY?! Since 2013 we regularly have calls in the office, if you can get Photoshop CS6 anywhere" "In any case, we are convinced that there is still a unique opportunity to buy a CINEMA4D license cost-effectively and permanently, without ending up in the circle of permanent debt." "The danger is that the user is completely forgotten. Because if, as a stock corporation, I'm only profit-oriented, and my customers are tightly bound by toggling contracts, how much will I spend on further developing new features? We already have a lot of experience as retailers that our customers (from all shifts and user classes) do not need a new version every year, because the new features may bring some performance or solve special cases, but our customers and most CINEMA4D Users are not the film studios in Hollywood, but down-to-earth artists who use CINEMA4D as a basic hand tool to make small and medium visualizations as daily bread. Many can easily skip multiple versions without missing anything." German only: Software3d dot de > CINEMA 4D > Cinema4D – Ein neuer Weg zum Einheitsbrei. Mieten oder Kaufen, Adobe Cloud macht es vor.
  13. (@ Rick & the Maxons: BtW: Please do not apply the sometimes aggressive tone to yourself. That does not apply to any of the employees I have met so far. Honestly, in the past, I have always considered MAXON to be one of the fairest, most helpful and best software manufacturers. I know that all these statements are often a bit unfair - but it's not against you. It is against efforts to change software licenses/industry against the will of users. It's not against you but what MAXON should reveal. It´s also clear, that none of the employees can speak against the dictates of the company. But, please keep in mind, that the new way Cinema is going - for which you are not responsible - is also aggresive to me and others. Thank you for your understanding) Seen from a strategical/financial few: When they tell us NOW, that there will never be a perpetual version 22 - most of those, who are on version 20 now and absolutely not willing to subscripe, wouldn´t invest in a perpetual version 21 or give money away for renewing their MSA. (Adobe did it exactly the same way & all users of CS5.5 thought, that CS6 will be the last perpetual version to UPGRADE [not CONVERT]. As Adobe often reminded - but never promised or guaranteed. So they invested in that upgrade and were deeply disapointed). And they need money, to go through that period, when many will stay on V21. Waiting till the point, where they can´t live any longer with an outdated software. Cash Cow (CC) also wasn´t adapted by that many over the first years - Only 15% < of licenses were subscriptions within 2 yrs after they took the choice. So keeping this point nebulous will help to get (the last) money of that guys, who are willing to have a perpetual or elsewise leave. They can get money of both - That one who are willing to subscripe and also from that who are not. Marketing blah can continue to claim: "What´s up? There still is (not: will be forever) a Perpetual?" Why is there no official formulation like "We will continue to offer perpetual licenses in the comming years". (Which would clearly be an argument for many of us. MAXON itself emphasized recently: "we are not rent only" - for me it was Maxons MAIN argument) And then (maybe we will see a few subscription updates throughout the year)... latest next year (and I bet there will be great features announced at that point)... Marketing blah will change to: "After Subscriptions are adapted that well, we decided to go this way only." Followed by "Software for the Universe" - or what all these marketing guys are dreaming of. The Perpetual Lovers will see a few (far better than now) Credits if they change their mind & Subscription will show Features we are long waiting for. Every bet. Seems the new CEO (which came from Adobe) is willing to copy the Adobe way. No phantasy or not willing to make it better? We are numbers not users? Coming to the end: Am I right: We will never see a Guaranty (not only nebulous statements) from MAXON, that we can BUY perpetual licenses in the future beyond V21?

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