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Posts posted by Marander

  1. Hello Jennifer


    As Cerbera mentioned, topology is very important for UV unwrapping.


    Depending on the complexity of the object, usually you just have to mark a couple of seams to properly unwrap


    With a dense mesh or bad topology (no polyflow, missing edge loops, ngons, tris etc) this is difficult. To have hundreds of auto unwrapped UV islands is not ideal for precise texturing.


    There is the new tool QuadRemesher from EXOSIDE that auto retopos the object, the Cinema Plugin is just being released now. Simple to use with good results. It helps for example if you used booleans, scans or VDB modeling. A good (subd) topology is still better but requires more modeling work.


    Also, maybe you could have a look at the Cinema plugin Seamilar which is very easy to use for basic UV'ing and well integrated in C4D, you can see the unwrapping while drawing the seams. RizomUV and 3D-Coat are great too of course.


    Also you could create separate parts of the object for having separate TextureSets in Substance. You will export separate maps for each TextureSet.


    Which maps you need with what export settings depends on the render engine but usually you need Normal, Height/Bump, Color/Diffuse, Roughness and Specular or Metallic maps which you load in the appropriate material channels.


    Cheers, Michael

  2. 2 hours ago, 3DKiwi said:


    There's got to be a big release coming at some point. We know they are redoing the UV tools and I don't think we've yet seen all of the new core since the UV tools / Bodypaint are built into the core.  So I'm predicting R22 is the big one with new UV tool set, faster object handling, multi-threaded Xpresso, updated Xpresso with more nodes. Has to be otherwise I think there will be a mass exodus to XYZ 3D application.


    Yes I agree. Xpresso with new Node system would be nice and it will come.


    Of course it's nice to have features built-in but for UV mapping MAXON is way too late. I guess most users already have RizomUV which is hard to beat - or similar tools. Same for Bodypaint, how can they catch up with defacto standard tools like Substance.

  3. On 9/14/2019 at 7:56 PM, 3D-Pangel said:

    And don't think for a second that subscription prices will remain the same over time.  Trust me, once they have coerced a large portion of their user base to subscriptions, those prices will rise.  Maybe not in huge jumps, but they will steadily go up.  And now you are really stuck.  There are no alternatives but to pay at that point.  


    Completely agree to all you said. The subscription prices will go up if MAXON is successful with the new model. If not, they will start to offer limited time subscription sales.


    The whole online and subscription disappointment started with VrayForC4D for me. Don't care about the new versions as they require a constant online connection. I got Redshift and was very excited when MAXON bought it (seamless integration, nodal shading). While I'm still glad I have a perpetual RS license, I'm not overly optimistic towards its future due to the direction MAXON is going. It seems the R21 Node spaces are not even ready for Redshift so I wonder if that will require a subscription-only update.


    I was an e-on Vue xStream + maintenance customer until they went the 'subscription only' route end of 2018. Similar to Cinema, I used to renew my yearly maintenance in order to get the newest perpetual version and I was specifically waiting for the promised new Vue version with Cinema R20 support to arrive.


    What I got instead is a limited Enterprise rental license for the newer versions, which I don't care about. The new version offered a new UI, a broken OpenVDB and Substance integration and the new licensing model. R20 in Vue support (and fixes for the broken new features) came a bit later, when my rental license already expired. Waste of money for me.


    Since they went subscription only, every few weeks they offer a massively reduced yearly subscription sale. Seems not to be such a successful model after all. I wouldn't be surprised if MAXON will do the same after some time.


    Now Cinema R21, biggest disappointment in features, the new licensing and the loss of MSA and Cineversity. Due to the fact that almost no 3rd party plugin works in R21, I would have to pay a maintenance for 3D Quakers for Forester to work in R21 (!) and all this online nuisance, I couldn't care less about R21, future Cinema releases or other MAXON software. Waste of money again.


    Siggraph used to be a very exciting event for me in the recent years but unfortunately this is no longer the case thanks to MAXON.

  4. 1 hour ago, marco bezoet de bie said:

    ...If i renew my MSA (for the last time before the end of august) i get R21 perpetual, but when i move to subscription (in august 2020) i wil loose my perpetual R21 license. That doesn't seem right. Perpetual does mean it never expires (for that particular version). I hope to hear more on this form MAXON.


    Not exactly but sort of. But MAXON confirmed in the Siggraph thread that:



    When you take MAXONs offer for the reduced price 2 year special offer subscription for MSA owners, then you CONVERT to subscription, you'll loose your perpetual Studio license.


    You can subscribe separately for the full price and then you don't loose the perpetual license.



    I don't think many individuals that read / understand the license terms would do that, I'm certainly not giving up my perpetual Studio license.


    What would motivate (not drive) me into a Cinema subscription is

    - a massively reduced price Cinema Indie Studio license (I'm a hobbyist) will full features, maybe render limitation to 4k

    - honest pricing (not calling a yearly upfront lump sum to be a monthly subscription)

    - integrated Redshift (I already have a perpetual RS license but an additional seat won't hurt)

    - kick-@ss features, XPresso and RS materials in new node system, rebuilt UV and Bodypaint toolset

    - improved particle system or integrated X-Particles

    - improved modeling tools that don't require the various Nitro4D plugins and HB modeling bundle anymore

    - additional workflow improvements like seen in R21

    - a RT viewport like Eevee


    One issue I have with the new licensing system is that it will break all the plugins again, now that most of them finally work in R20 (also thanks to the Insydium bridge). Also I feel bad for plugin developers because people with rental software most likely don't want to invest in plugins. I spent more than the Studio price in plugins and render engines for Cinema and would certainly not do that for rental or online activated software.


    And MAXON still keeps silent about what happens to Teamrender node licenses which were unlimited in Studio until now.

  5. 42 minutes ago, Cairyn said:


    Obviously, you download the full installer to keep. Then you install, and download the content libraries. Then you make a copy of the content libraries and store them in the same safe place as the installer. So, you can re-install your installation any time even if MAXON doesn't offer that specific version any more.


    Although, in the past I could even copy the full "live" installation to another machine. Dunno if that is still supported.


    Installer files shouldn't be an issue for MAXON as the app will ask for its license online anyway. So this method would not help if MAXON decides to switch off licensing for this version. They should not do that though; "perpetual" is perpetual (as long as the OS and the hardware allow the app to run). I would study the EULA this year very carefully anyway.



    Oh I'm sure the offline installer will be gone in one of the next releases "for a streamlined and simplified installation process for the user". Of course pure speculation but we have seen this behavior before.

  6. 35 minutes ago, everfresh said:

    there IS still the option to choose perpetual, at this point no one is forcing you to do anything. and nobody said perpetual will go away. that is your assumption. nothing more. maybe you are right and it will be the case someday, but nobody knows right now, at least none of us. so why act as if this is a sure thing? ah, yes, i know, because it was the same with adobe and your gut tells you. but that's not a valid argument. MAXON is MAXON, and adobe is adobe. 


    Perpetual with periodic (every 14 days) online activation is not perpetual to me anymore. Yes, you are theoretically entitled for using the software without limitation but you completely hand over control to MAXON. There are numerous examples where 1) online activation failed or 2) older software cannot be activated anymore.


    Another downside is that plugin developers now have to implement the new licensing too. And users have to wait again for their various plugins and render engines to be available for the new version.


    Personally I think in 1 or 2 years the message will be like "...due to the great success with subscription, limited requests for perpetual licenses and to streamline our development we now offer only subscription, to make it easier for the user..."


    3D for the Whole World would have been a very cheap or free Indie / Non-Commercial version, maybe with a 1080p render limitation. That could have even been a threat for Blender. Now it's the other way round and MAXON lost a huge part of its positive reputation.

    The CEO's presentation was a failure, no drive or enthusiasm. When he mentioned something like "my favorite feature in R21... Field Force..." it seemed to me that he has never used C4D before.


    Very silly argument that it's easier for the user now because he doesn't need to remember his serial. But now it needs a video to explain the new licensing. Easier indeed...


    There are some nice little workflow improvements I like in R21 - Texture copy dialog options, Timeline / F-Curves optimizations, UI improvements, OpenVDB Caching, Volume rendering in ProRender and the Mixamo Control Rig is great (however is Mixamo not a proprietary and discontinued Adobe technology?)


    But without MSA and forced online activation I will use the (MSA included) R21 for some things, but R20 will remain my main software and most likely no more upgrades, for sure no subcription.


    I also own Redshift (purchased last year), I love it and was very exited about MAXON's acquisition but now I look at it a little bit different.


    Another thing that bothers me is Teamrender... until now Studio offered unlimited render nodes. How is that handled with the new licensing system?

  7. 3 hours ago, Adrien said:

    The subscription system is targeting people like you. Studio users like me are the real losers . 

    Exactly. The only positive thing is after all, we have our license for the last real perpetual Cinema version with user friendly licensing.

    MAXON's argument that you don't have to bother again with serial numbers is ridiculous.

  8. 7 hours ago, Adrien said:

    I don't even feel like watching this year...Some of the magic is gone I guess...I always took pride in choosing C4D over maya/max 10 years ago. The program was different, the company as well. The users were kind of like cool outcasts. 

    There was also a sense of genuineness in MAXON but the new CEO's latest presentation was so full of marketing BS that I came to realize this era is now over. 

    The program is still damn cool but the love factor is gone. 


    Well said, this is exactly how I feel!


    The (periodic) online activation killed it for me. A change in the licensing system was the only thing I was afraid of in R21.

  9. 5 hours ago, prowl said:



    Volumes Dude.  Its amazing.  


    Or the plugin Meshboolean is really good if you don't like the volume mesh output. 


    No, the MeshBoolean Plugin and Nitro4Ds BoxModel Plugin also use the C4D internal Boolean technology, there's no improvement there.


    I agree with renegade, a Boolean rework would have to be done / expected in R20 or R21.


    While OpenVDB Modeling is great (and SubD modeling of course), Booleans can be a good solution in some cases and a redesigned Boolean algorithm would also make it easier for those plugins. Look at BoxCutter or HardOps in Blender!

  10. 11 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

    I don't feel I can really criticize the licencing all the time a perpetual version remains available and up-gradable, but time will tell how long that remains the case, so I will have to take the long view on that...



    A software that needs to be activated every 14 days is not perpetual to me. I depend on MAXON's activation service in order to start the software.


    About the upgrades, the strategy of 'subscription  companies' has been to increase prices for upgrades in order to push the users to subscription. And MAXON has already mentioned that 1) not all updates will be available for perpetual users and 2) Releases older than 3 years are not available for download and will not be supported anymore, so they can also remove activation of older releases as AD did.


    My workstations are usually not online because they run other stuff like virtual machines with exposed micro services and for other reasons (Windows Updates at times I don't want etc.). Certainly I don't want them online just to start an application.


    Sad day for me but in the end it's saving me money in the future.

  11. 11 minutes ago, Greatszalam said:

    There is no cost difference between the subscription and your MSA, so you're not losing anything. You're just gaining.



    Wrong. You're losing a perpetual software license. You will be paying and paying year by year but never ever owning a license that you can use at your own disposal. Rented software is worthless to me.


    In addition to that there is the hassle of online activation and periodic online checking. My workstations are offline and currently X-Particles and Cycles 4D are the only exceptions for me and that's already a pain in you know where.

  12. VERY disappointing.

    I had high hopes on MAXON's big announcement, but the major news is the new licensing and bundling options. I expected the inclusion of X-Particles / Cycles 4D,  Forester / Rock Engine or similar. Or some other rocking new features.

    As a hobbyist I didn't mind to pay for Studio MSA in order to have a fully offline perpetual license available. And I'm not renting software, ever.


    Actually I expected something like an Indie Version or Free Non-Commercial, looking at Blender 2.80+.


    The new features are nice but nothing ground breaking.


    - Force Fields - nice

    - UV - "Cinema 4D Release 21 lays the groundwork for future UV enhancements" -Really? Rebuilt UV tools were expected in R20! Luckily there is Rizom.

    - Mixamo rig - Would have been better to just integrate the People In Motion plugin but ok, that's useful

    - Bevel - well they were already pretty good before

    - New Particle System - ???

    - XPresso using new node system - ???

    - Redshift with new nodal shading built in R21?


    The new online activation system is utter BS to me. I see that major part of the MSA money went into the new licensing system.


    I want to use my purchased software wherever whenever, not depending on any company's goodwill, policies, licensing servers or online connectivity.


    "Single-user licenses associated with a MAXON Account require internet connection for initial activation and must connect every 14 days for continued use." - Yeah I have plenty examples where this caused problems in the past and future endeavors trying to move customers to subscription only.


    Then this (already a nice glimpse how MAXON will operate in future):

    "Can I upgrade my perpetual license?

    If you own a perpetual license of Cinema 4D, you’re eligible for discounted Cinema 4D subscription pricing. You’re also able to upgrade to an R21 perpetual license. Some future Cinema 4D upgrades may be available only to subscription customers, while others may be available as perpetual licenses at upgrade pricing. Specific timing and pricing of each upgrade is not yet defined."

    I'm pretty done with MAXON as customer and keep using my R20 Studio and the various 3rd party plugins / render engines.


  13. I thought of something Toby is showing here:



    Not sure if it will work with the DAZ character meshes and their UVs to bake / raycast from the high-res OBJ to the low-res FBX but I will eventually try it out.


    However for my purpose just applying the DAZ normal maps was sufficient and worked out fine so far. If you have the DAZ Alembic exporter, it will save out all required maps (Reflection, Subsurface, Normals, Bumps etc.) of all objects at once.

  14. On 6/10/2019 at 3:28 PM, Visionnext said:

    Some of the JCMs are quite useful as they correct deformations or can be used for bulging muscles.

    I'd love to bake the hires OBJ into a B&W displacement map. Just don't know, how to do that.

    I meant to do that in Cinema (bake high poly object into normal maps for low poly object).

  15. On 6/2/2019 at 3:12 PM, Visionnext said:

    Seems to be an interesting approach, but...

    - What about HD morphs?

    - What about joint controlled morphs? They are controlled by ERCLinks.


    Thanks for the information though. I already thought about just exporting the OBJ and re-rig it. As I use Vray I have to redo the maps anyway.

    About the joint controlled morphs I don't know, never used it.


    Yes DAZ HD morphs can only be exported via OBJ export in DAZ unfortunately. But for animation the high poly object might be too heavy anyway.


    If you need all the details you could export as OBJ and bake into normal maps (if the existing ones are not sufficient) and then use the exported FBX with the baked maps.

  16. On 5/26/2019 at 5:44 AM, jwiede said:

    Yeah, with Kuroyume's Poser import plugin long-dead, C4D's needed a decent Daz3D importer that fully processes and connects up available morphs, articulation, and so forth.  I'll gladly purchase a license ASAP if this effort ever comes to fruition.

    Hey John


    I can highly recommend the People in Motion R2.0.1 Plugin for C4D (works in R20 with the Insydium bridge).


    You can load a DAZ character via FBX import and select the DAZ rig (as well as other rig formats). It supports up to Genesis 3, for Genesis 8 you have to perform minor rotation corrections in order to be in T-Pose, but I export Gen8 characters with a T-Pose from DAZ, so that works as well.


    All morphs are included (for example facial morphs), if you included them in the FBX export (you can create a template in DAZ for exporting the required morphs).


    The People in Motion plugin can automatically create IK objects, offers a walk cycle generator, various poses and basic crowd functionality (stairs, escalators, chairs etc.).


    Textures need to be corrected a little (adding bump / normal maps, change some transparencies etc). In order to get the missing maps from the FBX export I use the DAZ Alembic exporter which collects all the maps used in DAZ Studio.


    I created some python code for myself to automate this and had it in mind to maybe publish a plugin one day but it would require some more development. However if the 3dtoAll plugin will have this functionality I will get it instead.




  17. Which other application is cheaper than Cinema 4D? You can buy it as one-time purchase and use it whenever wherever you like.


    Autodesk rental-only applications? You pay high subscription fees year after year for using it. Yes it has additional features like Fluid Sim or better Character animation tools out of the box but you'll never own a license.


    Houdini? FX is more expensive and its annual upgrade plan is insane. Houdini Indie is nice but too complex for many use cases and has revenue restrictions.


    Modo? Yes cheaper, but it uses online licensing. Great for modeling but lacks behind in many areas like animation or effects. Very few 3rd party plugins available.


    LightWave? Yes cheaper but all its features are very limited and poor compared to C4D. Its split application, modeling, destructive workflow and UI are from last millennium even in the latest version. Many plugins available but most of them only cover missing base functionality and don't work well together. Viewport / OpenGL speed is disappointing.


    Blender? Yes free and 2.80+ will finally offer better usability but very unstable yet in Beta and features are spread over several forks (Fracture or OpenVDB need their own fork for example). Nice goodies like Eevee but from my few excursions into Blender land I find many tools are not going as deep as Cinema's. Due to its open source licensing (to not include proprietary code), file exchange (for example via FBX) is not as robust as in other applications in my experience. There are some nice and low priced plugins available like FLIP Fluids or HardOps.


    Cinema 4D's new core is now implemented and its first fruits look great (performance of Media Core, Modeling tools, Voronoi Fracture, Poly Reduction, LOD, OpenVDB tools or the new Node Editor for example). Which other application provides a great Motion Tracker or brilliant CAD import out of the box? I'm very much looking forward to R21 and its features as well as an improved Redshift integration.

    I have licenses for several 3D applications but given Cinema 4D Studio's features, stability, workflow, ease-of-use, plugin architecture, available learning resources and 3rd party tools I find its price OK, including MSA and some (well in my case tons of) additional plugins and render engines.

  18. MAXON is a Nementschek company. Nementschek is huge, checkout their (BIM) solutions, it goes far beyond what Adobe does and is more comparable to Bentley.

    C4D would certainly fit perfectly into Adobe since it has already a tight integration in AE and AI and an easy to use UI and workflow. However MAXON is doing great and why would Nementschek sell it then.

    Any software that goes to Adobe or Autodesk I'll immediately stop investing since I don't do rental or online activated software. Same now for Substance, Vue and Vray unfortunately.

  19. The People In Motion 2 plugin offers DAZ rig compatibility (V4/M4, Gen2, Gen3 and with a little modification Gen8 as well as Mixamo, Renderpeople etc.).


    The fbx import works very well, some maps like roughness or normal needs to be manually set and some transparencies modified but besides that it's very easy to use DAZ characters in C4D.


    PIM2 offers basic crowd sim, auto walk cycles, ik and other features.


    Works native in until R19 and in R20 using the Insydium bridge.



  20. This should work:


    import c4d
    from c4d import gui

    def main():

        allobj = doc.GetActiveObjects(c4d.GETACTIVEOBJECTFLAGS_CHILDREN)
        obj = object()
        for obj in allobj:
            obj[c4d.ID_BASEOBJECT_VISIBILITY_EDITOR] = 1
            obj[c4d.ID_BASEOBJECT_VISIBILITY_RENDER] = 1

    if __name__=='__main__':

  21. 3 hours ago, Midphase said:


    Just to shed some light on this:


    1. The cost of a single perpetual copy of C4D (not including the yearly Service Contract) = 13 years of Houdini Indie. Even assuming their Indie pricing goes up gradually through the years, the equivalent would yield at least 8-10 years of Indie. I seriously doubt that anyone who purchased C4D 13 years ago is happy with that version and wouldn't have by now upgraded to a newer version, hence adding even more to the cost comparison.


    2. You can install Indie on two separate machines with very few restrictions. If you need to deactivate the machines because you're upgrading, it's easy and simple to do. I have done it several times and SideFX doesn't have any issue with it. They are also extremely responsive to license issues and quite helpful.


    3. Nothing lasts forever, and while yes, you can open projects created in R8 (is that even a thing?) in R20, you might realize that for most users, it's a very rare occurrence. In addition, you can save your projects as FBX, ABC, OBJ, etc. and have access to those elements independently of the software/version you're using.  Lastly, SideFX is committed to supporting USD in Houdini which, I suspect, will become the new standard.


    4. SideFX offers a free conversion service should you need to open projects originally created in Indie in the flagship Houdini FX. As long as it's not an obvious abuse of the service, they're happy to do so.


    Lastly, you are absolutely right, one cannot compare C4D pricing to Houdini as the capability of the former isn't even remotely close to the capability of the latter. It's not an apples-to-apples comparison unless one includes pretty much all 3rd party add-ons available to C4D, and even then it still falls far short of what Houdini can do right in the box. The price of C4D would be much closer to $6k and higher if we were try to have a fair comparison between the two apps, and that's not even factoring in the fact that Mantra is vastly superior to PR as a rendering engine.



    Note, my observations of Houdini are from playing a bit with the Apprentice version only from time to time and what I read on the SideFX homepage.


    Yes, you have some valid points there and as I mentioned, I will eventually rent Houdini Indie for some time anyway, it's a great piece of software and the pricing is more than fair.

    And yes, I'm not saying C4D is cheap and I spent probably as much for render engines and plugins additionally, but hey, it's fun to use - and I can use it whenever and wherever I want. I think C4D will always be my primary 3D app.


    However what you didn't mention or consider is, that Houdini Indie comes with a few limitations (besides licensing) that you don't have with other "full" software. $100k revenue might not be an awful lot in some regions. It initially didn't support 3rd party render engines and only one machine installation but at least that is improved. About the file type conversion: They offer a one-time conversion upon request. There are render limitations but they are hardly an issue for most. Full price is $4.5k and annual upgrade price $2.5k(!). They already increased the yearly price (nevertheless still a great offer and for two years the price remains the same).


    From a capability point of view, yes it can do incredible stuff and is very flexible. I like its procedural concept and the possibility to write code everywhere. However I think few users can actually use its full potential and only using shelf tools isn't the real thing.


    On the other hand, C4D might provide faster results, a quicker workflow and better usability for most users. There are so many great and easy to use plugins that I don't want to miss. Yes I know you can create Houdini Assets but to recreate all the C4D plugins would take a long time.


    Now what I would like to see in C4D R21+ are


    - extended  Volume/VDB system for volumetric rendering

    - a better fog / atmosphere system

    - an improved particle system (because I'm tired of the constant online requirement of XP and Cycles)

    - the new Node System available system-wide for XPresso, ProRender and 3rd party renderer engines

    - maybe retopo of VDB meshes with a good poly flow and the ability to texture it properly

    - Poly-Reduction (which is great!) with quad only option

    - improved  and simplified UV mapping (however there are great 3rd party solutions like 3D-Coat or Rizom and for simple stuff I like to use Seamilar)

    - Triplanar mapping


    Bodypaint doesn't really interest me that much because it will be hard for MAXON to catch up with Substance.

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