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Everything posted by CGIHercules

  1. I finally got to read all of this. Great tips. @Cerbera Yes one thing I like about C4D is that it's letting me know objects dimensions once I select it. The thing with Zbrush is you start with let's say a sphere that seems to be occupying about 50 percent of your current viewport and you think you got yourself a nice sizable object but once I exported my character to C4D it reported it being 4 cm and I was like "well he IS a squirell in this case but not a BUG" :) so still kind of on a small side. Now with having your and @ABMotion tip to scale up or down the whole project in Preferences gives me a chance to remedy this issues. I gotta say @Rectro you saying that Zbrush counts in meters and C4D in centimeters makes a lot of sense because it's all virtual space and what it looks like to me while modeling doesn't mean that it's of any significant size. I do exact same thing like you said, I use sculpt just as a base mesh that I will retopo on top of and than scale it up in C4D and after I will either transfer details of sculpt again and bake maps once I know it's symmetrical in the 0 World Space and than it's all good. But I know that real world scale matters a lot more if you're working with live action footage. Alsop @Cerbera is there any advantage of putting objects in a NULL and scaling NULL and than taking them out of it versus just scaling objects on their own ? I think in Maya somebody said that Maya's algoruthm would work better if objects are in the GROUP (NULL) than just scaling group of individually selected objects.
  2. @Cerbera I am so sorry. I used my phone to post and it reported it didnt go through first time. My bad. And thank you for clarifying that for me. Nothing is rigged yet but what is Cinemas DEFAULT size ?
  3. Title is pretty much my question. Meaning I heard this phrase a lot of time but wasnt sure if it applies to anyone who , as an end product , will not have to combine live action with 3D. In the other words it will all be CGI generated. I noticed that I made a model that C4D reports to be 4cm in height. Which is just a little squirell but even if i made a building at this size and than scale it post making it to fit my world how would that change anything? Is there any difference? ( i consider i didnt apply textures that would obviousmy strech in that case). Thank you
  4. After total retopo I got a pretty smooth nice even model but haaaands are just a MESS. Just notorious. And now I decided just to box model them. Simple 4 finger low poly hands and I just cant get it right. Even after I box modeled them...the smooth well and look cartoon style accurate (missing few knuckle loops but that's finishing details) but HOW in the world do I connect them. Forearm ends in 8 vertex points and his hand has much more. SO I either have to add hella lot of loops into his arms (which will totally mess body geo) or I need to go with tries and possible n gons in his palm. It's just math. No way I can male it work because I can't keep same shape of things when these fingers end in 4 side quads and on the other side is whole body with so many loops. I think I will just have to take some tries no work around it at this point./ Now I see why people box model because retopologizing organic model will inevitably leave you with n-gons and tries. Because it's math, not possible. If you start with a box it will always be a box and sides will subdivide evenly makes whole sense. But if you wanna put 2 pieces together and one is box modeled and other one organic shape...you're pretty much settling for tries and n gons. So that's a lesson I had to learn hard way.
  5. Oh wow...man this makes much more sense than what I was gonna do but hey I never made and animated eyes so there's my first time right there. BTW that animation is awesome as well as coloring and lighting. Also I noticed you put light INSIDE the eye itself. Is that something you do ? Like have 2 lights shine through translucent eyes rigged in the head ? For subsurface scattering maybe ?
  6. Oh man that's a great idea...extrude without a cap. Awesome. So how would you go about placing iris in ?
  7. Yap, I managed to drop it to 181 with drop in initial poly number and than not applying EXTRUDE like before. I hope this wont look thin like a paper in the render. Now I guess I would just insert another little black ball that would be an iris and that's what would be animated right ?
  8. Something like this...but maaaan, 660 polys per eye...damn. I was hoping for less. So both eyes combined wil be almost as the rest of the character LOL. Well I better have it ready for the close up scenes so I guess I will just take the hit.
  9. Well yes, since I guess in this cartoony style that wouldn't matter. I can always add polys and extrude inside of the eye sockets if you think thats better wat to go but I WAS gonna have 2 eyes and 2 eyelids (made out of 2 objects each upper/lower eyelid) added as separate objects rigged to the head.
  10. It's pretty cool and somewhat simple but also much like in any other program it will leave you with a messy geometry except that in ZBrush you can Zremesh it in a click of a button and get it to be guads only. And since eye lid in my case wont really deform just rotate (pivot) I don't have to be super precise obsessed with best possible geometry. They will be small and half hidden anyway and just rotating like revolving doors.
  11. @Rectro I agree on all of it. It's one thing to watch tutorials (that I do every single day) but jumping in the fire and actually facing these problems is totally different ball game and ACTUALLY teaches you THE MOST. That's why even though I know I bit on more than I can chew I think this project will force me into dealing with stuff I never wanted to deal before and make me learn correct ways of doing things. I do exact same technique in Zbrush with DUPLICATE object + MIRROR on the X axis for perfectly symmetrical copy. So I was gonna go the same way about eyes. I would go with a whole sphere with a slightly protruded iris and for eye lids I was gonna do HALF OF A SPHERE cut in half and than in half again. So second cutting would make them be splitting down the middle like our eye lids do. Also I would peform BOOLEAN in ZBrush with eye cutting in the eye lid sphere to make a space for eye geometry and than I would retopo it both so they have correct quad only geometry.
  12. @Rectro As far as eyelids, I never asked you...how is that done ? Is that a separate piece or should it be a part of the model ? I don't know I just have eye sockets and that's all. The only thing that I will add will be a TOOTH (different material obviously) as well as 2 spheres for eyes (also different material) but I never thought about eyelids.
  13. @Rectro I need to watch your video carefully now. I did do what you told me (well at least attempted to carry on the task) and made some changes to the model. This is all very excruciating but I know necessary and great learning curve (steeeep one).
  14. So, is this animatable ? No tries and N-Gons as far as I know and computer can find. Sits at around 1450 faces which makes it, I don't know I guess lighter model by today's standards. Smooths and subdivides well (which I guess mean might work for animation). I tried to have same size quads everywhere and of course loops around eyes, mouth, ears, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, neck and root of the tail...well , all the places I expect him to twist or wiggle in. Palm of hand topology...Ughhhhh....I really don't know what to say there I have done the palm must be 40 times (no joke) at this point and as of now I can't do better. My skill just does not allow me. They smooth well but how they rig.... we will see. If by you this is a "green light" I would proceed with the only other character I have and than I will upload his topology here too. Thank you everyone, you are TRAMENDEOS help !
  15. 1012 faces. No tris and n-gons. I put loops where I thought needed. I don't know how to retopologize hands . I did one but I didnt know how to copy and apply to the other so I have to re do it again. Whole body took me 2 hours in 10th try and hands took me like 2 days and I still didn't put even one polygon down. I have to clue what to do with hands
  16. @Rectro Yes I definitlelly want to look into that because it will help me even with rigging. I retopologized my mesh again. I needed to go back to ZBrush and re-export character as fully symetrical so my retopo tools would work properly and now I am getting somewhere hopefully. Obviously he is a cartoon character so his anatomy is totally crazy but topology still needs to work for rigging. I will try to make it as low poly as possible and than add any additional loops where they belong. This is progress so far. I think I might need more mouth and eye loops (some faces look like tries but they are all quads. P.S. I am retopologizing his hands last 5 hours and I have no idea why I can't do it. This is crazy hard. Probably harder than box modeling even.
  17. Wow I am so blessed with the amount of support and information I am getting here. I a m bound to succeed :) @VECTOR Absolutely agree, modeling is really hard and it's a skill that takes time to learn. Zbrush is just my "skecthing" app if you will, helps me come up with an idea. And I agree, topology doesnt matter that much for still renders but as soon as something needs to move it can bring havoc without proper flow and topology. Also I agree, no n-gons and tris I wanna see o my model :) As far as inner mouth cavity yes I usually just make a little pouch but I just made couple extra inches of space to make sure if he yells or opens his mouth wide you can't see it's shallow. And I left opening down that tube. @Rectro OH wow, that's a lot of latin terminology :) I was always into super heroes and comic books and working out so I feel like I know where the muscles are and I know how the body functions but when it comes to sculpting and modeling for rigging I don't know if my knowledge would be useful in terms of deformations and rigging. For instance I never noticed that forearm twists slightly like in that YouTube video. It's a big eye opener. So when I pose my characters for retopo or when I model them I guess the best practice would be to have their palms facing the ground which will cause forearms to twist on the inside slightly as it is naturally when done in real life ? I don't know why my symmetry is off. TOPOGUN has Symmetry but it doesn't work grat on this model because I think I might have made him slightly assymetrical to begin with in ZBrush. I will have to find a way to make him symmetrical because it is a nightmare cuz I was splitting him in half and connecting and doing all kind of things and it's totally asymetrical at this point :( @Fastbee That was a GREAT read. I am really grateful you took time to write all of that. It certainly is life draining process haha. I didn't say I want to achieve PIXAR quality. Not even close :) I just want it to look appealing for what it is and thus simple forms, simple characters,everything should be low poly but appealing. I know modeling and topology is just a beginning but if I do this right I will be happy to proceed knowing I won't have to go back to this once I start rigging or rendering. So I need a good base to build a house on. I learned music production and became music engineer and I play 3 instruments by this same approach. Maniacal obssession with detail that results in success :) Hahahaha. Ok, little joke there but I really think I can tackle this the way I tackled working on a large mixing consoles and self taught myself all of that like I am doing now, Forums, videos, books, articles, internet 24/7 :) Modeling will be done in Zbrush and C4D, I like how Maya handles UVs so UVs in Maya, TOPOGUN I use to retopo my characters, materials will be failry simple so I probably wont even go Substance Painter route etc. Rigging in C4D and animation as well. I am sure I will stick with C4D renderers since I don't have RedShift (but I wanna get it one day). Editing I will probably do in Final Cut Pro and post maybe in After Effects (that I don't know how to use LOL). But that's running way ahead of myself. Render passes, FX and all of that is so far down the line that I am not even thinking about that right now. I am putting bare bones together now and even with this I am hitting huge walls. So everything in it's time. Thank you for a great breakdown I will refer back to it as I go. I saved your polygon loops example and will redo elbows with that in mind.
  18. @VECTOR Thanks for checking in and sharing your input. I totally agree. ZBrush is liberating but detrimental for learning basic modeling concepts. That's not old school, that's just what we all got to learn. It just depends what comes first. Box model or idea. To me Zbrush just helps me get an idea. I wish I am on that level to just start box modeling modeling "from imagination" as you say but I have a lot of difficulties that way. Box modeling is definitely something that intimidates me. One of the reasons is because even if I know what I want it's little bit like working in the dark because I can't really tell if I will end up where I want. Another huge thing is that somehow I always end up having double vertices or double edges or some weird stuff is happening within a model and it's sooo frustrating. I just always find out I have some hidden geomtry and than I have to delete half of the polygons and it's a mess...but that's just me I am a noob. Now what I realized, one way or the other I will have to box model and do poly by poly. Because retopologizing is basically box modeling, poly by poly on top of the existing mesh. I know it's not the same but as @Rectro said I actually use Zbrush just to scetch out an idea. It's quick and liberating and easy to try out a concept. Once I want to commit I can retopologize on top of that and transfer detail later or add additional detail. So I think of ZBrush not as sculpting but 3D drawing software and than later I need to make it poly by poly. @Cerbera Yes first example is actually appropriate. I just need to learn how to do those loops around the elbow part. Since I always do arms and legs in grid like pattern. Oh man I feel so helpless in this 3D world haha :) I am sitting here for 12 hours a day and I can barelly make this effin simple shaped low poly squirell hahaha. So defeated. But I do care to prove that I can do it and that I can get it right. There is so much to learn but I will tackle it one by one. So far this is the progress I finally finished retopo work ( for now hah) and I added his tail and hands. Hi mouth has a tube going down with a small open ending inside his stomach. I guess that's ok, since another guy who was teaching 3D left his character with a opened throath like that so...if not you guys let me know. I added some extra loops around his general knee area and I show him "boxy" and smooth in this video. No Ngons, no tries...quads ONLY :) As it's suppose to be. :) Let me know. Thanks for making my life way easier :)
  19. @ABMotion Hey man, let's not forget your generous much appreciated input that helps me grow on a daily basis as well. Even yesterday with helping me on Alpha channel topic and 2D/3D integration and all the clips you provided (that I have re-watched thoroughly:). And thanks for noticing that I am trying really hard. @Rectro in Maya when you press number 3 on the keyboard whatever mesh you have in the viewport gets smoothing effect applied (Catmull Clark algorhythm) as a preview. When you press it again it goes back to "boxy", hard surface mode. That's the trick I was referring to. So it's almost like you don't need maps if shape is that simple. You need them for surface detail but I can see in my case being able to get away with pressing "3" in Maya. I don't know if C4D has something similar (except for Subdiv Surfaces) but it is a cool quic way to see how your mesh looks smoothed and it renders as such as well if left in that state. I heard of "Stop Stearing" and I was gonna order that book actually but I was looking for a software specific tutorial that would show me how to do it in Cinema or Maya so I can apply it right away. But I am interested in general principles as well of course. Som ething like "12 Principles of Animation". @Cerbera P.S. This pic is for you....inside of his eye sockets is now n-gon/triangle free. Not the prettiest topology but will smooth evenly and it's n ot gonna be visible anyway but I made sure that's take care of too :)
  20. I see, well for this kinf of character with almost no detail I believe I can get away withou maps and stuff but in case of more complexx stuff I think I would still need maps. Also C4D doesnt have that "smoothing trick" like Maya, like a preview button so in oprder for cinema not to render it out like a boxy model I dop need some sort of maps right ?
  21. I re did his head with hopefully less unecessary loops and no poles on his face. No triangles no ngons and no long quads. However I still have poles somewhere around the back side of the shoulders and I really don't know how to avoid them. I am just bad at topology this is the best I can do for now :(
  22. Wow Dan. that's pretty much all I need for now. I gotta learn about blend shapes when it come to animation :)
  23. You guys are amazing. Thanks for the input. @Cerbera I agree, inside of his eye sockets is absolute chaos even though I can proudly state that nowhere on his body did I allow even 1 N-GON and no TRIANGLES neither :) Only in his mouth I allowed it to happen since I really got tangled up and ReTopologizing a mesh is a major struggle for me for now. It takes me days (and I am not proud of that especially since I am dealing with super simple shape here). But I might as well put more work in now than later when I try to smooth and rig the mesh so I have to go back to retopo phase. Not sure how much advanced effects as jiggling will occur :) I just want him to be able to move without breaing apart or deforming. I will take your's and DAN'S advice and remove some of the uneccessary mouth edge loops. as well as arm muscle loops and update you once I think it's ok. P.S. What kind of arm loops would you suggest me putting in there ? @Rectro Yes I weas majorly determined to give him enough geometry in the face especially since it's so cartoony so big face deformations are expected from him. Tried to do loops around eyes, mouth and nose as those will be deformed the most but I will gladly remove some if you think it's uneccessary. Also as far as pole goes I never know is it better to have a stripe of polys run down the middle of the character or a straight like ( 2 poly strips on each side). And also that causes a pole. I am really bad at retopologizing but I practice a lot with these simple characters and I guess this project will be my learning curve. I will try to simplify his face and update you on this same thread. Thank you so much.
  24. Hi guys, I am trying to learn all I can that it takes to make an animated short and the best way to go about it is I guess to go and try to make one. I am taking it really seriously though and I do this 10 hours a day as I really wanna get good at it. So it’s not like I wanna waste your or my time asking you questions on this forum here. And btw this forum blows out of the water any other, ZBrush, Maya, Simply Maya, CGI whatever…this is THE place to learn so thank you all for that. As of now I will be focusing on making something that I can probably be able to tackle in a span of 5 months I guess. Simple short movie (like 3 to 5 min), 2 to 4 characters, simple modeling and everything pretty basic but appealing. Like TOY STORY 1 modeling rather than some crazy detailed work. I will be using ZBrush for character modeling, MAYA for UV’s and C4D for pretty much everything else. Yesterday I purchased TOPOGUN that will help me with creating animation friendly topology as we all know that Zbrush spits out unsuable, super dense, high resolution models with crazy topology. Now my very first question is , when making a character for animation, what happens with the eyes, eye lids and mouth ? Here is my first model. In ZBrush I left dents for eyes and dent in his mouth. He is a squirell so he will have like 1 tooth and wont open mouth much anyway but he will need to blink obviously and move his eyes :) What do you guys think about topology so far ? Face topology and general flow, loops ? I really need some input at this stage. He went from few million polys to under 1200 polys (without a tail). I hope he will end up under 2000 for the final mesh for the animation. You can see when smoothed in TOPOGUN that pretty much stays true to it’s Zbrush form. Let me know what do you think if this topology is goning to work for animation purposes and how do I handle eyes, eye lids, blinking and such. Thank you all, any constructive input much appreciated.



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